MAngband

I think that ghosts should start to get innate resistances based on the level to prevent the sequence: die, teleport, instantly permakilled by a breath from a Wyrm. It should be based on level to prevent ridiculous ghost diving and because high level players would need it more.
It should go something like:
Lvl1: See invisible
Lvl5: Resist Nether
Lvl10: Resist Dark
Lvl15: Resist Cold
Lvl20: Resist Poison
Lvl30: Resist Acid
Lvl40: Resist Lightning
Lvl50: Resist Fire

Resist base is crucial to avoid getting one-shotted. The resistances are ordered in what a ghost should resist as it gains strength.

Something which I think would be a whole lot easier to program, and more guaranteed to help ghosts not get 1-shot'd would be to add another layer of permanent walls in the dungeon. Then, edit the code to always put the ghost in that outer layer of permawalls, which would eliminate any instant permadeath.

I maybe the first to say this but not the last probably... you're not even supposed to have ghosts in this game :)
After that, it's just a question of realism... what resistances could ghosts have?
Currently they get: SEE_INVIS, RES_NETHR, HOLD_LIFE, FREE_ACT, INFRA, RES_FEAR
They could get: RES_DARK, RES_BLIND, RES_POIS, RES_COLD, RES_CONFU, RES_SHARD (NO_CUT), FEATHER, RES_TIME (if it ever gets implemented)
And probably all sustain stats too...
Stuff like res elec or fire would be just a convenience for players... I bet it's never gonna be implemented.

Like PW says, it's quite unlikely that anything like this will be implemented.

The existence of ghosts in MAngband is probably one of our most discussed subjects within the project team.

Ghosts were originally put into the game to compensate for problems with unstable servers and connections, these days most of us aren't on modems and our servers are very strong and healthy.

Angband does not have ghosts and having, in reality, unlimited lives is not what we want or what a roguelike should be like.
I think we're currently closer to giving ghosts a lower chance for survival than a higher chance for survival. (Not that we have any specific plans to do so).

This may be against the opinions of most of the devs, but I personally think that ghosts are the one thing in this game that makes it so that new players do not simply run away ranting. If ghosts did not exist, I know that I never would have played for very long. I came to mangband without first playing any other roguelike. Having ghosts and partying and player shops allowed me to be eased into the whole roguelike experience, and I would not want anyone to go without that.

schroeder wrote:This may be against the opinions of most of the devs, but I personally think that ghosts are the one thing in this game that makes it so that new players do not simply run away ranting. If ghosts did not exist, I know that I never would have played for very long. I came to mangband without first playing any other roguelike. Having ghosts and partying and player shops allowed me to be eased into the whole roguelike experience, and I would not want anyone to go without that.

*sign*

Realistic (strange realistic and Ghost together) i have never seen or heared about Ghosts which attack or could be attacked outside of the movie and gamers world and maybe the sensationell press.
If a Ghost is meant to rescue lifes which lost because of data transmission problems he should be that way. He should not be able to dive down, kill and get killed. The first two things are an exploid and the third is a bug. In my opinion.

Yeah. I have a fast Internetconnection. And i have from time to time lag from 0 to 100 (connection lost) without any warning. A Highspeed connection isn´t worth a lot as long as the data has to run about strange pathes through the web.

But i musn´t post it here because here is nothing written what is a news. You know it all allready. ;)

I guess by 'realistcly' he meant in the sense relative to our material, i.e. Tolkien, D&D, Angband and such. Therefore, If we're to model ghosts, we should base them on
a) Monsters ghosts -- we have ghostly monsters, player ghosts should be like them in sense of abilities.
b) Tolkien lore -- so how much interaction is possible between dead/undead ? Return of the king anyone?
c) D&D rules -- perhaps some working ideas allready exist.

None of that addresses the techincal side about lag, connection issues, server crashes and the likes. Yeah, it's still possible to die in MAngband and say "it wasn't my fault" (You can't do it in Angband, unless it was some mad bug like double breathing). I kinda like the current system, if you feel like it was a fair death - commit suicide, if you think you shall play some more - ressurect, and noone's to blame to you. If your ghost died because of lag -- tought luck :)

To avoid any misunderstanding. I mean a Ghost dont need any ability without pass walls if he spawn at a save spot (layer of permawalls). Actually the Ghost spawns at any Spot of the Level and it can be near a pack of Hounds or an ethereal Monster or it can be at a save Place. The Ghostoption is a bet if you get two times bad luck or not.

Like allready written in another post are the most of my deaths by my own fault. One point more for me to know "I am not experienced enougth to play brave". Sometimes i do a try as "brave" and actually i play allmost at Ironman but i like to have a Char with a chance to remain if i do something wrong.

I haven`t played Angband (or any other Roguelike) and i don`t think about to do it. But as far as i know the Enemy/s get their Turn/s and the Game stops waiting for my input for my Turn ? That would mean i don`t need a Ghost because 70 or more percent of my Deaths wouldn`t happen. Its a big difference to decide and react if you can take another healsource or need any escape while the next attack is allready running or to do it with all time of the world.

So that brings us to a point ghosts not only compensate for technical issues, but for realtime (added difficulty) too.

Of course. Like written. But still if i loose the conection, nothing can kill a level 50 with 1135 HP and all resists in one turn. Not even a summon if you use a anti summon corridor. And at the actuall depth of my Mainchar ( Level 90 - 100 ) you need to build a lot of that corridors. But i think we are allready offtopic. The question insnt if or why we need Ghost and it isnt would i survive at Mangband.

schroeder wrote:
This may be against the opinions of most of the devs, but I personally think that ghosts are the one thing in this game that makes it so that new players do not simply run away ranting.
*sign*
If ghosts did not exist, I know that I never would have played for very long. I came to mangband without first playing any other roguelike.
*sign*
Having ghosts and partying and player shops allowed me to be eased into the whole roguelike experience, and I would not want anyone to go without that.
*sign*
Something which I think would be a whole lot easier to program, and more guaranteed to help ghosts not get 1-shot'd would be to add another layer of permanent walls in the dungeon. Then, edit the code to always put the ghost in that outer layer of permawalls, which would eliminate any instant permadeath.
*sign*

I like Mangband and i would like to share it with more players. But i dislike to get a life scroll and read:

New Players Ghost was destroyed by Bad Luck

If ghosts did not exist, I know that I never would have played for very long. I came to mangband without first playing any other roguelike.

That's the problem... in all other roguelikes, you don't have ghosts. That means you won't ever play other roguelikes?

Well actually, yes I would. I've grown to be able to accept no ghosts, and I've grown to like some other roguelikes. Its just that, at the start, playing with just 1 life through an entire game is just cruel, imo, and having ghosts allows new players to start playing without being forced to quaff a potion of berserk strength irl.

I got an idea about how you could balance ghosts and non-brave characters without making it so that they will probably die anyway. How about non-brave charactrs just gain lvls slower? You could either have it be that each exp a brave character gets would give a non-brave character 2/3 exp points, or you could just make it like a racial mod (but then it wouldn't be very bad for high elf mages, since its just another 50% exp mod). This way, it would be more painfull for non brave characters, but it wouldn't make new players to roguelikes run away after they easily permadie after their first death.

This is just me thinking about death after i witnessed poor nubnub permadie... may he rest in peace, till he decided to relvl a nubnub.

Brave chars get already an XP bonus.

How about making characters brave after some playtime or experience.

E.g. reched level 40 = become auto-brave
or reached 6000 ft = become auto-brave
or playtime 1 month = become auto-brave

Well on the other hand there can STILL be lag problems and such so the ghost is not "unnecessary".

The current system is also good ... select brave + non-brave and just dont care :)

Ace wrote:Brave chars already get an XP bonus.

Wait, are you sure that brave characters are already given an experience bonus? I just thought they were given a score bonus on the ladder.