Thoughts on the new items in v1.0+
Posted: Sun 30.08.2009, 14:10
Hi all.
We've now played for a good while with the "new" items from Angband 3.0.6 and I think it's about time we sit down and evaluate their performance and if they should be part of MAngband in the next version.
This thread was sparked by finding some old notes for a forum post in a .txt file on my computer which I can't seem to locate in the forums for some reason. Maybe I never posted it, but here goes my original thoughts about the new items:
(Please note my revised 2009 comments in bold, after the original thoughts)
They've added/modified 20 items, excluding lights.
It seems as if they paid little attention to Tolkien when giving the new items names, especially the new gloves and amulets seem un-tolkien'ish to me.
We don't need their new lightsources, we have that covered already.
New boots:
There are two new boots. I don't think we should add either.
1: Stability gives res nexus and feather fall. Honestly I don't like those and I don't see the point of them. They won't do any damage to the game but to me they just seem annoying.
2: Elvenkind seems unrelated to other elvenkind-type of items. 1d5 stealth and speed is nice however. In my opinion, ditch them. They don't belong here.
As time has passed by I see even less need for the expanded Elvenkind series, especially when they're not really themed that well. Stability boots have sort of found their place but I'd rather add some MAngband specific boots tailored especially towards our game
New gloves:
There are two new gloves. I don't think we should add either.
1: Gloves of Thievery are pointless. Seems they're trying to just make some fancy class specific items or something... We already have agility gloves. No need.
2: "of Combat" could've been promising but the aggravate makes them useless. 1d4 and they'd probably be worth it.
Both these gloves are fairly popular (I think) and they do add some variety to the game. Again I would rather create MAngband specific gloves than these, who are (like so many of the new egos from vanilla) named sort of randomly/non-tolkien'ish).
New headwear:
There are three new crowns. I don't think we should add the first two, they don't fit in. The updated Lordliness crown however is fine.
1: Crown of night and day: This could've been quite useful, since mangband has a flawed pool of high resists (can't get light/dark from random high res items)... Either way could be useful but few if any would chose it instead of ESP/power/magi. Pretty much useless.
2: Crown of Serenity: Resist fear would certainly be useful, also res conf and sound... seems like a useful item that'd possibly open up some slots, but not very useful for high-end players with the balance DSM setup.
3: Crown of Lordliness: updated to be equal to the magi crown with it's random ability and resist fear it'd be very useful.
I still think the same way about these, they do add a little more variety obviously but it's hardly important.
New shields:
There are two new shields. We don't need the Elvenkind but the Preservation shield fits in.
1:Shield of Elvenkind: We already have a shield that gives a high resistance, Avari. There's really no need to bring in the whole elvenkind family when they're this weak anyway.
2: Shield of Preservation: Disen res, life draining, another high res, sust fight stats... not bad but also covered by the Balance DSM setup. Would open up for alternative body armor choices but thats not very likely anyway.
The preservation shield is a nice item. The elvenkind shield is meaningless.
New cloaks:
There are two new cloaks. Maybe the protection cloak needed an update, but, this is not the way to go. No good. Magi cloak? Unsure. Magi Robe better.
1: Cloak of Protection: When all the other new mangband specific ego's were created I also suggested a cloak like this, Cloak of Orma (Orma means Earth) that was supposed to resist shards. But - a new cloak with that name and that resist? No and no.
2: Cloak of the Magi: This seems like a very good item, though you'd be hard pressed to find someone who'd prefer it on a kolla or aman, unless they were desperate for the ability on this one. Leaves the player with some more choices.
The Magi cloak is very popular I believe but I still believe a Magi robe would make more sense. Their updated protection cloak never made much sense to me but it's been here now and it does no harm.
New armor:
One new piece of armor and it's not too bad. Mid phase armor.
1: Armour (Dwarven): Gives 1d2 str and con, infra and FA but seems too weak to really be an alternative to anything. However could be good to get another mid-phase armor, around the resistance/elvenkind armors, for those who already have the lows. Maybe not a bad option.
I have made quite a few new armors that will fall into this segment (and then some). However this may still be a worthwhile item, especially for the midgame.
New digger:
1: Digger of Earthquakes: This is pretty good. I like it. More digging power and earthquake vs monster.
I still like these. Though I think I'd rather create diggers with dwarf-specific names (for the dwarf specific diggers of course...
New shooters:
There are three new shooters. We adressed this with our Lothlorien and Numenor shooters. The buckland sling is a must-have though. The others not.
1: Sling of Buckland: Fun little addition. Gives a small dex bonus and would deal out some decent damage for a sling. Could probably be added without making any problems.
2: Bow of Lothlorien: We already have one with this name. However very interesting with a bow that gives an ability. Maybe add an ability to the lothlorien bow we already have, plus something to the numenor bow, to make them about even? Not having cubragol is hard, maybe give numenors a small 1d2M3 bonus to speed?
3: Crossbow of the Haradrim: Seems too weak to be really be very useful and I don't think there's a need for so many different kinds of shooters.
I don't like the Haradrim, our old Lothlorien was sort of weak compared to the Numenor bow. The buckland is a nice sling, still.
New amulets:
There are four new amulets. I don't like their names. Especially not Trickery/Weaponmastery.
1: Amulet of Devotion: Wis/chr bonus not the most useful, silly resists but could be useful for medium level characters.
2: Amulet of the Magi: Our Magi amulet works better.
3: Amulet of Trickery: up to 3 extra dex, stealth, searching, infra and speed, PLUS res poison and nexus. This amulet is a joke and outdoes all the artifact amulets. If our amulet of speed gets an update (1d5 or 1d6) this would fit in better.
4: Amulet of Weaponmastery: Hit/dam bonus, str bonus, res fear, disen and life draining, also sust str and con.
All those four amulets are quite powerful. That said, I don't like either. I prefer our magi amulet. The Trickery amulet is overpowered.
We've now played for a good while with the "new" items from Angband 3.0.6 and I think it's about time we sit down and evaluate their performance and if they should be part of MAngband in the next version.
This thread was sparked by finding some old notes for a forum post in a .txt file on my computer which I can't seem to locate in the forums for some reason. Maybe I never posted it, but here goes my original thoughts about the new items:
(Please note my revised 2009 comments in bold, after the original thoughts)
They've added/modified 20 items, excluding lights.
It seems as if they paid little attention to Tolkien when giving the new items names, especially the new gloves and amulets seem un-tolkien'ish to me.
We don't need their new lightsources, we have that covered already.
New boots:
There are two new boots. I don't think we should add either.
1: Stability gives res nexus and feather fall. Honestly I don't like those and I don't see the point of them. They won't do any damage to the game but to me they just seem annoying.
2: Elvenkind seems unrelated to other elvenkind-type of items. 1d5 stealth and speed is nice however. In my opinion, ditch them. They don't belong here.
As time has passed by I see even less need for the expanded Elvenkind series, especially when they're not really themed that well. Stability boots have sort of found their place but I'd rather add some MAngband specific boots tailored especially towards our game
New gloves:
There are two new gloves. I don't think we should add either.
1: Gloves of Thievery are pointless. Seems they're trying to just make some fancy class specific items or something... We already have agility gloves. No need.
2: "of Combat" could've been promising but the aggravate makes them useless. 1d4 and they'd probably be worth it.
Both these gloves are fairly popular (I think) and they do add some variety to the game. Again I would rather create MAngband specific gloves than these, who are (like so many of the new egos from vanilla) named sort of randomly/non-tolkien'ish).
New headwear:
There are three new crowns. I don't think we should add the first two, they don't fit in. The updated Lordliness crown however is fine.
1: Crown of night and day: This could've been quite useful, since mangband has a flawed pool of high resists (can't get light/dark from random high res items)... Either way could be useful but few if any would chose it instead of ESP/power/magi. Pretty much useless.
2: Crown of Serenity: Resist fear would certainly be useful, also res conf and sound... seems like a useful item that'd possibly open up some slots, but not very useful for high-end players with the balance DSM setup.
3: Crown of Lordliness: updated to be equal to the magi crown with it's random ability and resist fear it'd be very useful.
I still think the same way about these, they do add a little more variety obviously but it's hardly important.
New shields:
There are two new shields. We don't need the Elvenkind but the Preservation shield fits in.
1:Shield of Elvenkind: We already have a shield that gives a high resistance, Avari. There's really no need to bring in the whole elvenkind family when they're this weak anyway.
2: Shield of Preservation: Disen res, life draining, another high res, sust fight stats... not bad but also covered by the Balance DSM setup. Would open up for alternative body armor choices but thats not very likely anyway.
The preservation shield is a nice item. The elvenkind shield is meaningless.
New cloaks:
There are two new cloaks. Maybe the protection cloak needed an update, but, this is not the way to go. No good. Magi cloak? Unsure. Magi Robe better.
1: Cloak of Protection: When all the other new mangband specific ego's were created I also suggested a cloak like this, Cloak of Orma (Orma means Earth) that was supposed to resist shards. But - a new cloak with that name and that resist? No and no.
2: Cloak of the Magi: This seems like a very good item, though you'd be hard pressed to find someone who'd prefer it on a kolla or aman, unless they were desperate for the ability on this one. Leaves the player with some more choices.
The Magi cloak is very popular I believe but I still believe a Magi robe would make more sense. Their updated protection cloak never made much sense to me but it's been here now and it does no harm.
New armor:
One new piece of armor and it's not too bad. Mid phase armor.
1: Armour (Dwarven): Gives 1d2 str and con, infra and FA but seems too weak to really be an alternative to anything. However could be good to get another mid-phase armor, around the resistance/elvenkind armors, for those who already have the lows. Maybe not a bad option.
I have made quite a few new armors that will fall into this segment (and then some). However this may still be a worthwhile item, especially for the midgame.
New digger:
1: Digger of Earthquakes: This is pretty good. I like it. More digging power and earthquake vs monster.
I still like these. Though I think I'd rather create diggers with dwarf-specific names (for the dwarf specific diggers of course...
New shooters:
There are three new shooters. We adressed this with our Lothlorien and Numenor shooters. The buckland sling is a must-have though. The others not.
1: Sling of Buckland: Fun little addition. Gives a small dex bonus and would deal out some decent damage for a sling. Could probably be added without making any problems.
2: Bow of Lothlorien: We already have one with this name. However very interesting with a bow that gives an ability. Maybe add an ability to the lothlorien bow we already have, plus something to the numenor bow, to make them about even? Not having cubragol is hard, maybe give numenors a small 1d2M3 bonus to speed?
3: Crossbow of the Haradrim: Seems too weak to be really be very useful and I don't think there's a need for so many different kinds of shooters.
I don't like the Haradrim, our old Lothlorien was sort of weak compared to the Numenor bow. The buckland is a nice sling, still.
New amulets:
There are four new amulets. I don't like their names. Especially not Trickery/Weaponmastery.
1: Amulet of Devotion: Wis/chr bonus not the most useful, silly resists but could be useful for medium level characters.
2: Amulet of the Magi: Our Magi amulet works better.
3: Amulet of Trickery: up to 3 extra dex, stealth, searching, infra and speed, PLUS res poison and nexus. This amulet is a joke and outdoes all the artifact amulets. If our amulet of speed gets an update (1d5 or 1d6) this would fit in better.
4: Amulet of Weaponmastery: Hit/dam bonus, str bonus, res fear, disen and life draining, also sust str and con.
All those four amulets are quite powerful. That said, I don't like either. I prefer our magi amulet. The Trickery amulet is overpowered.