Special After-Death Experiences

[Alweth]

I like the fact that MAngband maintains the feature of Angband that dying is pretty bad.  However, the fact that dying is bad does not necessitate that dying be boring and demotivating.

Somebody else mentioned that a number of their friends had stopped playing because of the demotivating aspect of dying.

Here's what I suggest:

Characters that are above a certain level (say 10) should have a small chance (maybe 5% or lower), when they die, of turning into something other than a ghost.  I will list my specific ideas for these forms in a second, but first let me say how I think this will benefit the game.

Most or all of the forms I am thinking of would have significant down-sides to them, so it would still always be a bad thing to die, even if you did manage to get a special form.  (In fact, since you can't be ressurected from these forms, many people might even consider them to be worse than losing xp and being ressed.)  However, it would an an element of excitement and discovery to death, so that players who died would feel like exploring the new possibilities of their character, rather than quitting.  Also, characters that have died and become something else add a strange and cool flavor to the game, I think.

Now, for my suggestions for other forms (These are effectively additional races of which you cannot create characters.):

Skeleton:  If you're killed by a unique undead, a necromancer, or an evil priest, you might come back as a Skeleton.  Skeleton's come back as the same level and class as the original character, but have greatly reduced INT, WIS, and CHR.  They are now hurt by both light and holy, but have permanent darkvision, and fear-causing attacks.  When entering a new level, they would not be attacked by undead unless they attack or kill some undead on that level first.  A Skeleton would not be able to enter the Temple, and would get greatly increased prices at the other shops.  (I think the Skeleton probably needs more advantages, to maintain balance.)

Zombie:  Like Skeleton but less likely, with increased STR, and poison causing attacks.

Mummy:  Like Skeleton but even less likely than a Zombie with increased STR and CON, and no reduction to WIS and INT.

Vampire:  If killed by a vampire, a character has a small chance to come back as one themselves.  Same level/class and equipment, but with altered stats and new advantages/disadvantages.  I think you get the idea.

Vengeful Spirit:  If a character is PKed, they have a % chance equal the difference in level between them and their murderer to come back as a Vengeful Spirit.  Vengeful Spirits are really tough to kill, have a bunch of really powerful attacks that work only on the character that killed them, and have the ability to float down to whatever level their murderer is on.  Also, they get no experience except by killing their murderer (for which they get a lot of experience).  Once they have slain their murderer though, they turn into a normal ghost.  (Alternatively, they could stay as a Vengeful Spirit until they've killed their murderer's ghost and then disappear from the game.)

Werewolf:  Characters that have been slain by Canines might have a small chance of coming back as a Werewolf.  Werewolfs would be hurt by holy damage and would not be able to enter the Temple, but every 30th game-night they'd have greatly increased physical stats at the price of reduced AC as if under the effect of a really powerful Beserker Strength potion.  (Additionally, you might make it so that every 30th game night they'd have a hard time wielding weapons but would have a greatly increased unarmed damage.)

Heir:  Any high-level character that died would have a small chance of becoming a level 1 character of the same race and class, but with all the equipment of the old character.  They would appear in town, fully equipped.  (Such characters would be in serious danger of being PKed, but might have an increased chance of becoming a Vengeful Spirit.)  Alternatively, they might start as a character with 25% of the exp of the original character.

Reincarnation:  A high-level character that died (maybe limited to Priests and Paladins or characters with high WIS or CHR) would have a small chance of reappearing in town as a character of random Race (and maybe random Class), of the same level, and similar stats.  They would start with a starter-kit appropriate to their Class.

Personal Artifact:  This one would probably be too hard to program, but it would be hilarious and awesome if you could.  Characters that were slain by a high-level mage or caster of some sort would have a small chance of having their soul imbued into an unique artifact named after them (an Executioner's Sword "Alweth").  They would become level 1, would not be able to move, but would be able to see and talk.  They could be picked up and wielded by another player and would share experience with that player (as long as they are online and "playing" their character/item).  As they gained levels they would gain magical effects and special U abilities that they could use to help their wielder.  The type of weapon they would be imbued into and the type of magical effects they got could be random or they could be based on their previous Race/Class.  They would no longer be able to be "killed" since they are an item.  If they logged on when their wielder wasn't playing they could have the option of dropping out of the hand/inventory of that person and waiting/calling for someone else to come pick them up.

A Whole Lot More:  I'm sure you can come up with other ideas of alternate forms.  I'd like to hear your suggestions.  (I would think that not all of the forms would have to be attainable by dying either.)  Also, there might be high-level player-spells that would allow them to turn really low-level or weak players into someof these forms at the cost of both parties' experience, and the other player might have to be dead or meet other requirements.

Needless to say, these suggestions would take a lot of programming and would have to be tweaked some before and after implementation, but I think they would add a very unique and entertaining aspect to the game without hurting the current gameplay too much.  Let me know what you guys think.

[Alweth]

I forgot to mention that I think what you can become and how you can become it should be kept as secret as possible, to increase the mystique of dying and changing forms.

[Ashi]

I personally would rather become a ghost and later lose half of my experience than become one of those. However, turning into something cool like that would be a lot better than becoming a Fruit Bat when polymorphed. It would be interesting if there were a few more forms one could become when polymorphed.

[Alweth]

[quote author=Ashi link=board=wishlist;num=1040081595;start=0#2 date=12/18/02 at 15:16:08]I personally would rather become a ghost and later lose half of my experience than become one of those.[/quote]

Well, under this system you'd still become a ghost the vast majority of the times you died.  However, keep in mind that dying isn't really supposed to be about what the player wants--if becoming another form was desirable then people would be trying to become undead, which makes no sense.

[Fink]

Ashi brings up the interesting point of having polymorph do more than fruitbat. At its simplest, a few other monsters could be used along with just the fruit bat. In a pvp sense, having the player you polymorph get a chance to  turn into a chaos hound would be interesting

-Fink

[Anyar]

maybe instead of auto turning into those, yhere could be for high level players "ghost items" that you can only pick up if you meet requirements ie:class weight age str etc. and using these items would let you become undead like l45 ghost picks up werewolf staff {GHOST} identify scroll {GHOST} used says kill 200 canines to use or skeleton staff {GHOST} collect 15 human skeletons etc.

[Berendol]

Unfortunately, I see too many ways these could be abused by the players I used to observe in an open PvP system. Especially the Vengeful Spirit, which is a very nice idea, but very exploitable if you take into account the newbies of all ages who bicker with the higher-level players for the sake of fighting.

I'd settle for just having all my equipment and items drop when I die in the middle of a large room. Or how about a different death system entirely?

I like the Final Fantasy XI experience and death system. You lose 10% of the EXP requirement for your next level, and there is no penalty under level 3. The requirement increases every level, starting at 500 at level 1, and it's about 6500 at level 30. You start at zero every time you level, and if you delevel, you see how far along the previous level you now are. An Even Match mob (whose level is equal to your level, and whose defense is comparable to your offense, and whose evasion is similar to your stat-based and undisplayed to-hit bonus) gives you 100 EXP while soloing, no matter what. Thinking about this, the EXP system there is more inflated than it is here. We'd have to adjust the penalty. You don't drop anything, neither do you turn into a ghost - you have the option of sitting there for an hour waiting for a Raise, which regains lost EXP, or warping back to your home point and taking the full penalty. If you accept a Raise, you are in a weakened state (something like 1/3 HP and MP) for several minutes. Which, by the way, is also in there as the Curse spell... mobs can do this to you while you're still alive. All health and movement status effects wear off when you die.

Perhaps the way this could be implemented is thus:
If you die, you become a corpse. Nothing drops on the floor. All health and movement status effects wear off immediately. You are completely invulnerable and monsters ignore you, but you are completely immobile and unable to cast/pray/equip/use/etc. Your torches and such would stop burning, an easy hack in the code for sure. A Life scroll/spell would revive the corpse on the spot. Or, you could just warp back to town for an EXP penalty. Item drops and ghosts can be done away with IMO. Seems to me this wouldn't be too difficult to do. I'd take a week and do it myself but my job gets in the way...

In the end, it is not possible to make death a pleasant experience. I don't like the idea, and nobody would avoid it if it were likable at all. A better system than what we have now is quite necessary to avoid the abuses that happen, but a better system need not make dying motivational. It's the player's responsibility to motivate himself or herself in lieu of actual quest-and-reward based game content.

[Saturos]

SO if a player would turn into a corpse, how about corpse robbing? you could treat the corpse like a chest w/out traps or maybe a 10% or 5% chance of like it summoning undead, and the corpsse would also have to be tagged so you know that your not reviving your worst enemy instead of your best friend. but would the pked drop a corpse? also like a chest the corpse should be carriable. ie Jube wants to PK saturos im on level 1000 if find some idiot newbs corpse i pick it up and teleport level and recall

[Anyar]

the purpose of this is that i would take it to my house and search it and wait until jube drinks a potion of death and obliterates me

[Berendol]

No, corpses are not lootable under my ideal system. Sorry, this isn't Evercrack.

They aren't even items. They are players.