Making MAngband completely turn-based?

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rabbot
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Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by rabbot » Thu 29.05.2008, 15:13

Hiya, folks!

(I apologize if this is in the wrong forum...honestly, I didn't know where it fit in!)

New user here. I'm a long-time NetHack player, and lately I've been dying to find a multiplayer Roguelike to enjoy with a couple of pals. I really dig MAngband and the sense of community I've felt from the short time I've logged in the game, but I'd really love to be able to play MAngband with a smaller amount of players in a completely turn-based environment.

Is it possible to modify MAngband to play more like a standard Roguelike game? Is it possible to force the server to wait for all players on a level to act before advancing to the next turn? I'm no coder, so I figured I'd ask some of the pros and devs here (great work by the way!).

Thanks for taking the time,

Rabbot

Jug
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by Jug » Fri 30.05.2008, 09:41

Hello,

The short answer is that it is possible, it would require a programmer implement this behaviour, it doesn't exist currently.

It's an interesting idea, I don't know how well it would play though, I imagine it would be pretty slow paced. There would be a couple of tricky areas such as how to handle running, but it could make for an interesting experiment.

Currently it's possible to slow the game server down using the FPS setting in the configuration file (mangband.cfg), I know this isn't what you're looking for, but it may interesting nonetheless.

Ace
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by Ace » Fri 30.05.2008, 11:18

May<be it's easier to implement a "Pause" button.
And to make a command queue visible.

Of course this would require a programmer too

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Flambard
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by Flambard » Fri 30.05.2008, 14:58

Yeah, that would be an interesting project/experiment. Some problems present themselfs, but on the other hand it's kinda turn-based allready, so it wouldn't be too hard (atleast getting the basics down).

Welcome, rabbot, and I hope you can enjoy MAngband, even if it's real-time.

rabbot
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by rabbot » Fri 30.05.2008, 15:22

I hadn't thought of keeping the current time mechanics and adding a way to temporarily pause the game as Ace suggested. That might be the best of both worlds (the ability to get around quickly with multiple players and still get the more thoughtful turn-based combat I've been itching for).

I'll definitely keep looking into it. Thanks for the replies, everyone

In the meantime I will continue to play (and enjoy!) MAngband on the main servers. :)

serina
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by serina » Sat 31.05.2008, 12:40

Indeed. A button that switches between the 2 modes for an admin would be nice.

So here we have to run along the corridor. A D shows up, and the admin switches to turn-based mode.

That'd be a fun new environment, but still Maybe the game should just slow down so each regular turn takes 5 seconds or more. I dunno.

Just thinking aloud. Or maybe just the a command that slows down a single level. Like I'm on 3450 feet, and only that level slows down as I press the command. But then the game would be alot easier due to all the items traded/sold in multiplayer.

ZAL

nate
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by nate » Sun 28.09.2008, 22:05

hey,

i just tried out mangband today for the first time in years (I think the last version I played was from 2002 or so) and was super impressed by it - in a minute i was running a server and my room mate and i were playing together in it.

we were pretty dismayed by the realtimeness, though - it didn't take long for my poor mage to get rushed and killed at 50' before my roommate could stab it. we started talking about alternative timing mechanisms and i came here to see if there was any discussion about it....

in any event, i'm a programmer :) i really like the idea of making mangband turnbased or giving it a pause button; i can figure it out in the code, but first it'd need to be decided how it would work in terms of gameplay, so here are some halfbaked thoughts to spur discussion:

i like the idea of a per-level pause. however two parties operating separately in the same level will be stepping on each others' toes pretty badly. should levels be exclusive to the first 'party' that gets there and subsequent 'parties' would either get a different level or agree to work with (or against) the party on the same level?

or for totally turnbased; each player on a given level gets to pick one action, then each monster makes an action, then repeat? or maybe only totally turnbased when there are monsters and PCs in the same visible area (ie a kind of hybrid pause+totally turnbased).

is this even functionality that the maintainers would want added? Or would this warrant a variant variant? I'd like to think that different timing mechanisms could just be server settings (ie, admins pick which timing structure to use and players pick servers based on which mechanism they prefer).

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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by Billsey » Mon 29.09.2008, 01:28

We've been doing some experimentation with the concept of 'time bubbles', where the duration of a game turn is based on the health of the player, and what the player is doing. That allows us to speed the game up when you're resting and slow it down when you're dying. There are lots and lots of ramifications, of course, but it's certainly a nifty concept to explore. It gives you the results I think you're really looking for, more time to decide what to do when you're near death, without causing the game to appreciably slow down for other players on the server.

When things are stable and complete enough we'll see about running a beta server/client for those who wish to test the playability of this concept.
Mangband Project Team Member

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Flambard
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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by Flambard » Mon 29.09.2008, 06:40

I would like to add, that before 'time bubbles' concept re-surfaced, I did some tests on the pause/turn based issue (yes, inspired by this same topic). Nothing ever came out of it, but one of the interesting concepts was energy redistribution - i.e. when player spends energy, other monsters and players gain proportional ammount and vice versa. However, I'm a big 'time bubbles' fan (or what was implemented of them anyway). They give you a VERY Angband-ish feeling, yet they keep the time flowing, never pausing completly. So I'd recommend them over any other mechanics any day.

And yeah, once again, please consider giving real-time MAngband a chance :) You might be surprised how well it grows on you.

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Re: Making MAngband completely turn-based?

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 29.09.2008, 11:17

The only problem I have with the current realtime system is how the side menus/screens like the macro screen are managed. It has already happened to me to enter the macro screen mode in the dungeon, record a macro for a newly learned spell for a mage, press ESC only to find out that my character has been killed in the meantime. This should NEVER happen. You have no control (and even no warning!) on what's happening server-side when you don't have the main map displayed... that's a critical point that should be improved.

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