To Morgoth!!! (Previously known as Thinking of lulz)

General discussion about the game. Pull up a stool and tell us your tale!
schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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To Morgoth!!! (Previously known as Thinking of lulz)

Post by schroeder » Fri 21.11.2008, 13:14

So after beating angband, I got a massive downer. I beat angband with ease, with no real risk I had max of my important stats, and I had 50 *heal* pots and 20 life pots. And for the past while, mangband has fealt as though it just lacked something, probably since I had lost a lot in death. Well with my angband win in my belt, I feel like I should just freaking beat mangband.
I would weild caris as my weapon, enchanted to +15+20, giving me 5con and slay evil. Umbar as my crossbow, giving me 2 con 2 str. A speed ring and a damage ring (I'm not sure what the +s would be, but I bet I could trade in everying I own to get my speed ring +a couple higher), amulet of trickery+3(or maybe I should spend my money here to make it +4), some dragon scale mail (not sure which kind. Right now, I'm thinking that i either want to weild my law for the shard, or buy some chaos. I don't really *need* either one, so if someone has a different sugestion for armor, I would love to hear it). Shadow cloak of tuor (immunity acid and +4 to dex), an avari shield +2 with nether resist,not sure what gloves I want. A crown of serenity(i don't really need telepathy while fighting morgoth, since my roomate can tell me whats happening outside my field of vision). I just bought some elven gloves of power from ascii's shop. I now have over max str, which will be nice for when its drained. Calris umbar and the aviri will also put my con 1 above max. I currently have +7 speed boots.
Now if I go in like that, I will have over max str, over max con, resist all first collom, resist blind confu,shard or chaos, nether, disenchant, a currently unknown hit and damage, a speed of 20 without speed pot if i get +10 speed ring, +3trickery, and +7 speed boots. I could also use a sling of buckland+2 to dex instead of umbar if i do not have max bpr. This would only decrease my con by 1.

Now as a note, I do not care whatsoever if I die. If I take on morgoth, i will be fully prepared to die and lost the character forever. I know that, for victory to be possible like this, I must be in a vault that gives me the advantage. I have 50 pots of enlightenment, so I'm sure I could search for it and find it so long as I know what it looks like. Once i'm in it, I just need to overheal. I have 50 *healing* pots and 11 life pots. As a safety method and a way to block monsters from being summoned, I could have my roomate emulord join me in the vault. He is a lvl 41 priest. He doesn't really like the high-lvl game so he wouldn't care if he died. I would just need to make sure he has the *essencial* resists. He would also have the job of heal spaming so that, if I get double mana stormed, one of us will probably be doing some healing.

Please pick out every flaw you see in my plan. Make sugestions. I'm basicly trying to end the game of a lvl 45 character, and hopefully do it in style.
Last edited by schroeder on Fri 28.11.2008, 10:33, edited 1 time in total.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

Warrior
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by Warrior » Fri 21.11.2008, 13:22

I don't think this will work.

You don't mention any sustains for example.
You could in theory quaff the life pots whenever your stats got drained too much, but Morgoth is kinda intimidating and faster than you'd think, so I don't really think you'd be able to do that.

Another thing, you're probably too slow.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

schroeder
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Fri 21.11.2008, 13:33

I am fine with it not working, but only if I get enough advice on it all. Suggestions, please.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

Maegdae
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by Maegdae » Fri 21.11.2008, 13:43

You've put in quite a bit of work into this character to be so cavalier about his death =)

Ideas:

A. Consider a second speed ring. If your speed pot runs out, you're in a bad place. If you pop extra, you're just wasting some of the damage increase from that ring. More speed means faster reaction, which means you can respond to those manastorms. Relying on your friend could suck hard when he misses a heal. Feel free to stick with the dam ring if you can get your speed up to +23/24ish, though.

B. Do you need the extra +2 dex from Tuor over a kolla? I didn't see you mention sustain con, and without it you'll be popping a life pot after melee hit from Morgy - assuming you didn't get unlucky and have your con drained just before or after manastorm. Immu acid would be nice, but not critical.

C. Manastorm is going to pop your friend like an overripe melon. It's AOE.

D. Prayer, berserk strength, heroism, double-res fire and cold - all that stuff is great before the fight.

E. Don't be carrying any staves.

F. If the wrong unique shows up, life will be suck.

G. You'd be better off just finding a mage to run banish for you then bringing your friend into the vault. He's just gonna die pointlessly.
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Warrior
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by Warrior » Fri 21.11.2008, 13:50

You should consider posting your equipment in a way similar to this:

Equipment:

Blade of Chaos of Extra Attacks (6d5) (+16,+15) (+2 Attacks)
The Light Crossbow 'Cubragol' (x4) (+10,+14) (+10 to speed)
a Ring of Speed (+15)
a Ring of Damage (20)
an Amulet of the Magi [+7] (+7 to searching) {Sound}
The Phial of Galadriel
Power Dragon Scale Mail (-3) [40,+34]
a Kolla of Lordly Resistance [3,+20] (+1)
a Large Metal Shield of the Avari [5,+24] (+1) {Disen}
The Iron Helm of Dor-Lomin [5,+20] (+4)
a Set of Gauntlets of Power (+5,+5) [2,+15] (+5)
a Pair of Witan Boots of Speed [8,+21] (-2) (+9)

And also your planned inventory.
And maybe also your C screen, what resists do you have, where are they from, it's not hard to give you very specific advice here.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Fri 21.11.2008, 15:06

I currently do not have all of my planned items on my character, so I can't poast the C screan. However this is what I currently have...
The Bastard Sword 'Calris' (5d4) (+15,+20){+5 con slay troll demon evil *dragon* resist disenchant, agros}
The Heavy Crossbow of Umbar (x4) (+18,+18){+2str con resist lightning light dark blind, agros}
Ring of Speed +9
Ring of Speed +? (not sure what it is because roomate has it, but it is probably 9 or 10)
Amulet of Trickery +3 {+3 dex speed, resist poison nexus}
bronze Dragon scale mail (-2) [30,+23]
Kolla[3,+15] +2 (I liked your sugestion)
Small Leather shield of the Avari [2,+15]+2{nether}
elven gloves of power (+2,+4)[1,+18](+5){+5 to strenght}
Hard leather boots of speed [3,+17](+7)

question: don't you get 5 more turns of haste for each pot of speed you quaff if you are already hasted? Could I just quaff like 50 of them before the fight started?

If i'm gonna ask a mage, its probably gonna be ascii cus he is just that cool. I will let him have my geer if i win, and I will let him have the arts if I die. I'll also probably ask him to bring down my friend anyway so that he can tell me of things happening outside my vision since i have no telepathy.

If he were to just heal spam himself, would he be able to survive? It would be really nice if he filled up a spot in the vault instead of a monster.

this is what I plan to have when the fight starts
5 or so pots of speed in case speed is lost durring fight
60 pots of *healing* (is this overkill?)
11 pots of life
3 or so scrolls of prayer
3 pots of berserk str.
3 pots of heroism
3 pots resist heat
3 pots resist cold
5 or so scrolls of *destruction* (in case I just know i'm screwed)
rod of teleport other (i'm not sure if i should or not. If I do, it could be tricky/risky to use. I would probably have to make a macro for each direction of quaff *healing*, zap at not morgoth, quaff *healing*)
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

Maegdae
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by Maegdae » Fri 21.11.2008, 17:24

Don't know whether that five-second stacking works or not. Heroism and resist cold/fire, and prayer scrolls fully stack, so just bring like thirty of them and pop em' all off beforehand. Don't think berserk strength does.

No, he's not likely to live. If he ends up next to Morgy (even if your placement is good, there are earthquakes), Morgy's going to hit on him and without lots of luck he's screwed.

If you take him in the right vault, there's only going to be one or two spaces at most that aren't Morgoth. Your problem is if Cantoras, Tarrasque, Mouth, or any of the other high damage uniques shows up in that spot. Kill them first. If you can't do that pretty easily, you have no chance against the big P.
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GAT d- s++:- a14 C++++ UL+ P L+ E? W+ N+ o? K---- w--- O-- M-- V? PS--- PE++ Y+ PGP- t+ 5? X- R+ !tv b+++ DI+++ D+ G+ e- h! !r !z

schroeder
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Fri 21.11.2008, 21:11

Where can I find all the shapes of the permanent wall vaults?
########
#@@# #
####P#
#######
If their was something like this, it would be just so ideal its not even funny.

I have agro items. Would that make him more likely to attack me then him, especially since he is not attacking?

I took all those uniques (except cantoras) before. I even killed sauron once with ascii (he got the kill). However, I died after all that. I bet that, right now with my 60 *healing* pots, I could take on any one of them. I just really don't want to. That would involve hunting them down and killing them. My current character, if I work my geer in such a way, has all resists except confusion which would have to be on some istari gauntlets. I don't really want to wait for some to show up in a player shop.

Ascii and I were talking, and he thought that me and emulord could take morgoth. He could have dwarven armor, aviri shield, and whatever else so he would have enough con, and he could help mele. Really, he could have a +6 con ring, a +10 speed ring, +7 speed boots and +3 trickery amulet. He would have nether on one of his resists, and he wouldn't really *need* more.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

serina
Crystal Ooze
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by serina » Sat 22.11.2008, 13:37

Trying this at lvl 45... Well. My only comment is that Vanilla Angband is WAY WAY WAY more forgiving against Morgoth than MAngband is.

If both of you are ready to dig and regroup, it might work with a priest healing you, but it sounds to me like Morgoth is gonna eat you for dinner. Have you watched the video of Warrior's beta warrior fighting Morgoth? He did it just for fun, but there's alot of luck involved unless you've got really incredible gear or play a mage, heh.

When all that's been said... I'd love to see this happen, because it'd be fun to give Morgoth less respect ;)

Quaff 50 potions of heroism and 50 speed potions before the fight (without gorging yourself) each speed potion when you're hasted gives an additional 5 turns of extra duration at speed 0 so for you it means more.

Your AC should be at least 150 to even try it I think. Else Morgoth is going to hit you WAY too often. The closer you get to 200+ the better.

There's a vault called lesser maze that looks like this at the bottom:
XXXXXX
X.X.X.
.X.X.X
XXXXXX

I'm not sure if that's the best place to fight him with 2 people or not, but it's a good bet.

ZAL

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Sat 22.11.2008, 23:37

With that design, would that work best like this?

#######
@#P# # #
#@# # #
#######
With this, i'm thinking emulord would be 300 heal spaming so I only had to worry about mana storms or nether balls.
How might things happen after he creates earthquakes?
would their be a chance of us appearing on both sides of morgoth?
Or maybe it would be possible for something like this?
@##########
##P#@# #
###@# # #
#########
Depending on how agro works, I have a strategy that could work REAL well.
Someone would agro morgoth into the vault, phase door out. We would have someone on the level whose only task was to be keeping morgoth in that corner while we run toward him.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

PowerWyrm
Balrog
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 24.11.2008, 12:57

Playing with two characters against morgy is totally out of question when one is a melee type character unless the other one is a mage or a ranger. First time morgy quakes, both characters will be probably pushed away outside of the vault, embedded in rock, and far away one from the other. By the time you dig your way back to morgy he will be fully healed again.
Remember that currently earthquake is badly broken and could result in both characters being killed or unable to react when something (staff, wand, spell...) asks for a direction. Check http://mangband.org/developer/ticket/701...

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Tue 25.11.2008, 03:21

I get the point of all of that, although we wouldn't be using directional things, since I'm a warrior, and he is just a healing priest.
Did you say that we could be pushed out of the vault though, even though their are permanent walls? I'm not really sure how earthquake works, besides with monsters. Its not really explained anywhere, and it can be very important to know. If our order in the vault I showed would not be effected, then emulord could use stone to mud after he was pushed back to get next to me.

And actually, I've just now decided against going for it. I bought a nether cloak, so now I can rework my gear, so I am just going to play, i guess. This has been fun thinking about this though.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

PowerWyrm
Balrog
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Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by PowerWyrm » Tue 25.11.2008, 11:53

Earthquake doesn't care about permawalls. You're just replaced in a spot anywhere in the quake radius. Healing priest will fail healing you due to the directional bug (the healing will target the emptiness instead of your character).

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat 14.06.2008, 04:23
Location: Somewhere in Illinois in the USA

Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Wed 26.11.2008, 03:40

Well now that I decided to not go that path, the RNG has rewarded me. I now have max str con, 6pbr, 1 or 2 imminities (fire and acid as a swap for chaos. Now I just need balance dsm) resist all except hold life (i'm lvl 50 though so whatever), and +2 base speed. I think I can take morgoth soon. I just need to kill all the uniques!
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat 14.06.2008, 04:23
Location: Somewhere in Illinois in the USA

Re: Thinking of lulz

Post by schroeder » Wed 26.11.2008, 05:20

Make that +25 base speed. I just found a ring of speed +14!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

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