Has the game become easier? [Poll]

General discussion about the game. Pull up a stool and tell us your tale!
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Has the game become easier?

Player shops have made it easier
13
41%
Changes from angband have made it easier
5
16%
Other mangband-specific changes have made it easier
3
9%
It's about the same difficulty as always.
3
9%
It has become harder.
5
16%
Other - please describe below.
3
9%
 
Total votes: 32

Warrior
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
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Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by Warrior » Sun 01.02.2009, 16:35

Has the game become easier?

Since 0.7.x hundreds if not thousands of changes has been made to the game.
Some of them have significant effects on gameplay and difficulty.
We've synched up with Angband 3.0.6 and they've made some changes to many items and spells for example that have great impact on the difficulty of the game.
Then there's other changes, maybe specific to a playing style, maybe related to only certain classes.
Please post here with feedback on your thoughts about the difficulty of the game, overall as well as in specific stages of the game.

-- The Mangband Project Team.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

serina
Crystal Ooze
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat 15.09.2007, 18:42

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by serina » Sun 01.02.2009, 17:01

Yes it's definately become easier with the introduction of player-shops. But all in all what this does i remove some of the annoying time-sinks that were in 0.7.x. My point is that hunting the shops over and over till you find FA is silly, but somewhat required. Also the waiting for shop 7 to have an amulet of regen is annoying, and really destroys the fun in playing a mage or priest, since they can only start with 1 BPR, they rely too much on regaining mana too not have an amulet of regen past lvl 15.

Some characters get an almost free ride to lvl 30 when they find 1 valuable item early in the game because they can sell it and acquire 1-5 really powerful early-game items. But in my experience these characters would've made it anyway, but the timesink having to spend more time shopping the regular shop 1-7 has been removed.

However the game from 30+ is still tough. It all depends on how many con potions you get, if you get ESP, if you have good/bad luck with the summoners etc.

All in all, Morgoth's minions still have a fair chance to get you. This shows well on the statistics page. So far about 7000 dead heroes and 6 to 7 winners? This means about 1 in 1000 characters will make it to retirement. But considering currently living promissing characters maybe it's more like 1 in 750 characters. But that's still not a very high survivability-rate.

So to conclude:
The game is easier in the way that some of the timesinks have been removed and you can go down faster than you would in 0.7.x, but the game is still hard. Some race/class combos still rely heavily on artifacts or farming till the end of time in order to be able to defeat Morgoth in my eyes, but maybe the kobold and elven mages aren't supposed to win without "artifacts" (including in this statement of "artifacts" here, is the orchish avari +4 and the kolla of magi +2+2, of which have been found a total of 3 or 4 during the entire time since server started (so I think of those as artifacts)).

ZAL

Ace
Crystal Ooze
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri 15.02.2008, 12:50

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by Ace » Sun 01.02.2009, 17:19

- stacking of staves
- players shops made it easier
- Full esp gone made it harder

there are still some unfair events in the game (e.g. being moved from stairs, breaths from out of screen monsters)

Regarding the survival rate - I would not give too much about this. Many players go and risk a lot to get fast lvls 1 - 20. If they would take it slow and carful they would survive. Also I think we have some characters who are ready to take on morgy but they do not "risk" this yet.
Last edited by Ace on Mon 02.02.2009, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
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Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by schroeder » Sun 01.02.2009, 22:37

Well I only started playing this server, but, from what I've heard, Its definitely become easier. Later game is no longer simply a prayer for the right art or the right ego item with the right resist. IMO, its just rediculous like that. I'm also *glad* about the no-log rule. That has also made the game much more reasonable. But, of course, I definately find that it is *tougher* than angband. That, i believe, will always be true.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
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Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 02.02.2009, 13:15

Player shops make the game easier... especially when some people start running supermarkets. A midlevel player finding a lucky scroll of acquirement can now easily exchange it for 5 stat pots (con or int for example to get a lot of hp or mana quickly), or a weapon with ESP, or an item with specific missing resist (mirk boots, elven armor/shield...).
Endless recharging for wands/staves makes the game a lot easier... staves of speed make speed potions obsolete, staves of magi make mana pots obsolete, wands of stone to mud make diggers obsolete... and so on. Probably why that feature was reversed in latest vanilla...
New features, on the contrary, are making the game harder:
- for mages, no more GoI; Rift was introduced to compensate, but a bug in the current implementation makes it abusable (monsters don't resist it, except gravity breathers), so the next version will force mages to melee more
- for paladins, no more clairvoyance
- for rogues, insane fail rates for spells
- limited ESP: this slows the playing a lot, since you can't now tell what a "special" feeling on a level is (GV, artifact or simple pit?)... and can't scum for certain monsters (hounds for xp, uniques...)
- vaults from Chris Atenasio (Backdoor Surprise, Zoo of Concentrated Death) and Miniature Cell vaults: those vaults have monsters that can be 40 levels out of depth starting at 250ft, and don't have permawalls to contain them (a Dreadmaster at 250ft is possible... and would kill any unlucky char that would come close to it); great vaults at high level (lots of great items), instakillers at low level

Domino
Giant Hunter Ant
Posts: 173
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Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by Domino » Mon 02.12.2013, 19:40

I have mixed feelings. Over all the game is easier to get into, but more tedious the longer you play.

Player Shops are nice and certainly help at some stages.. Finally makes gold useful for mid-range characters. There was always some level of trading and this makes it so that people don't have to coordinate play time or post to the forums. I can remember many hours of scumming the BM praying to find some ESP after an Acquirement scroll find or waiting around after dying on a high level character hoping that someone would log in willing to sell something that can cover that one missing resistance that's preventing you from diving to your usual haunts. On the whole this makes things (much?) easier.

Lack of healing availability makes much of the game tedious. Given that the game is real-time heal potions are kind of a necessity after certain points. Requiring players to either scum the BM for potions or play extremely low levels until enough are found for a deeper dive is somewhat nonsensical. This shouldn't be a chore. It's also breaking low level game as higher level players will trade gear, stat potions or cash for heal pots to low level characters who don't need them yet. This is difficult to curb as the 'market' is essentially a bidding one. Right now the going price is $20,000 gold or a stat pot. Harder (frustratingly tedious).

I really really really dislike limited ESP. I don't like the idea of 'forcing' a player to explore levels. It's supposed to be 'fun' and different players have different play styles. Some will always explore, some will only look for interesting levels. I think it should be a choice not an obligation. It makes a lot of the game tedious. Especially when hunting uniques. Harder (tedious).

Speed seems to be much more readily available - especially on a lot of low level arts that can be found in the first 1000'. I don't think it's too well balanced. I think prices should be adjusted upwards as well since with player shops it's easy to buy and relatively cheap. It can be game breaking to get it too soon. The odd lucky player is one thing but now it seems that everyone level 20+ has some speed. Much (too much?) easier.

Spell and Prayer failure rate changes - this might need some adjustment and thought. While on the one hand I understand the desire to remain as close to vanilla as possible with the main branch, real-time is just plain different. In turn based if you're in combat and a spell fails each monster gets however many rounds of combat as their speed allows vs yours and then - the game pauses while you get to figure out what you're going to do next. In real-time this isn't a possibility and you can be quickly overcome. I know - this is part of the appeal here and we're all here for that. At the same time there's certain mechanics that do not translate well at all. This is one of them. Either fail rates need to be tweaked a bit or the mana pool needs to be increased to compensate the many recasts that real-time forces to happen to all but the end-game maximized character. Slightly Harder.

Spell and Prayer changes in general. Mixed bag. I can't say I'm fond of the changes but I haven't played a mage to end-game yet so I'll need to see how that shakes down. I do think the early - mid game has changed a bit as playing those levels as an actual caster vs a melee with support spells has become more difficult and the new spells don't seem to add enough damage wise to make up the difference. My mage doesn't have rift yet so I don't know how that will play out. Really dislike Paladin's not having some spells - missing clarivoyance negates a big reason to play a Paladin. They have higher fail rates than priests, get all spells later than priests, aren't much better fighters.. really the only advantage over a priest they had was more hps and the ability to use edged weapons. The penalties now make them not really worth the bother. A warrior is a better choice. I'll have to check in later with rogues.

Stave/Wand recharges - easier - by far. Diggers are a thing of the past at this point. Destro staves, magi staves, banishing staves.. Being able to endlessly use these is a game changer for sure.

Over all - Game seems quite a bit easier and yet much more tedious in a lot of aspects.
King of the Hill Baby!

Gorom
Skeleton Hobgoblin
Posts: 41
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Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by Gorom » Tue 14.01.2014, 11:40

Making money is harder. Due to the forced retirement People retire and we can't buy things off them or if they retire. Also selling things. I used to sell Heal pots to avenger for 20k each. And now with no avenger it is a lot harder to make money.

Bandur
Clear Yeek
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue 24.12.2013, 03:12

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by Bandur » Wed 15.01.2014, 01:58

Yah but in Angband you can only sell to the shops. So money making in reality has become MUCH easier

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by PowerWyrm » Fri 17.01.2014, 15:35

Gorom wrote:Making money is harder. Due to the forced retirement People retire and we can't buy things off them or if they retire. Also selling things. I used to sell Heal pots to avenger for 20k each. And now with no avenger it is a lot harder to make money.
Once you're able to dive to 3500ft, money is not a problem. Rings of speed have a rarity of 1, and there are not that many ring flavors... meaning that you're almost guaranteed to find a ring each dive. And as long as speed items will be stupidly priced, you'll get millions in no time.

Emulord
King Vampire
Posts: 252
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Location: UIUC

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by Emulord » Fri 17.01.2014, 19:05

Should we reduce maximum sell amounts for NPC shops? In normal vanilla you'll only get maximum 30K for anything, even speed rings.
This would make there be less gold in circulation. Selling +4-9 speed rings to NPCs en masse generates so much inflation in the player economy.

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by PowerWyrm » Sun 19.01.2014, 19:39

Emulord wrote:Should we reduce maximum sell amounts for NPC shops? In normal vanilla you'll only get maximum 30K for anything, even speed rings.
This would make there be less gold in circulation. Selling +4-9 speed rings to NPCs en masse generates so much inflation in the player economy.
Yes, in V, shops are limited to 30K. However, the pricing routine has been completely rewritten and items don't cost the same amount.

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Has the game become easier? [Poll]

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 03.02.2014, 19:41

Here's a fun story to show that the game is much easier now:

I was partying with 2 other people on TomeNET, which doesn't have the new "manual looking/targeting" feature. We were diving at 2650ft, which is supposed to be the home of Smaug, the Golden (themed dungeon). No big problem, my character is buff enough and has immunity to fire. So I lure the closest flashy D, start meleeing and turn into a 4. Hmm Smaug is not supposed to breathe anything other than fire, no? Should have seen it coming and tried to teleport away... too late. Surrounded by 10+ wyrms and promptly annihilated. I check the death log... and of course I see: You have been killed by Glaurung, Father of the Dragons. Clearly a stupid death that never would have happened in MAngband now.

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