Mangband.org rules.

[Berendol]

Would anyone object if I was to create an all-inclusive spoiler on base prices? Obviously I'd put it on Mangband School and just give you a link. A document on the values of bonuses might be a good follow-up, and then another on the expected prices for certain rare and/or powerful items.

[Fink]

I consider myself warned... I have helped newbies maybe too cheap.

I will try to stick to 100/+ for enchantments as well, as this seems to be what the shop will give me.
And at least Shop price and no more loans.

An exeptions is that I include a "Life Scroll" and "Word Of recall scroll" in my rescues.

I made a trade, the other day, 6 Stat potions and resistance armour for a orcish shiled, I hope you dont let the lucky nebie suffer, as I really needed the orcish.

[Crimson]

If you've checked the price in a store, and you sell an item for no less than that amount, then you're covered by default.  Obviously, market value on some items will be considerably higher than what a store will give, but, hey, you did check using the only mechanic included in the game, so there's not a whole lot I can say unless/until I fix that issue.  This does not take rarity into account at all, I realise.

The situation I'm addressing is players charging either nothing at all, or prices obviously well below what a store would charge.  An obvious example is the already addressed issue of enchanting 99 arrows to +9,+9 and then selling the entire stack for 1,000AU, which is 1/10th the store price.  (and, yes, I checked, a single +9,+9 normal arrow does in fact retail for 99AU.  A stack of 99 would be 100 times that roughly, or 9891 au).

The other common issue is selling stat potons below the 8k store cost (chr aside, which retails for 1k).

Despite obvioius grumblings, there are certainly quick and convient ways provided in the game to check object value.  The validity of "there's no way to check" is nil.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

Good 'nuff.  That's really what I was pushing for.

You're right, it doesn't account for rarity, and it's probably not the best way to do it, but at least it's SOMETHING to go by.

That's usually what I'll do.  "The shop will give me 25k, so I'll charge you <random figure of at least 25k>.  Friends get charged whatever the shop will give me, rounded up for easy math.

That works for me.  Thanks, Crimson!

[Berendol]

Have a look at this, I think you'll like it... I really like the way they have chosen to deal with misbehaving players on their system. I move we adopt this proven set of rules so there are no questions. I don't see any loopholes, and we can probably add or modify a few specific things (clone wands, ghosts, houses, etc), and remove the section on "claiming" maps. Oh.. we'd have to get their permission no doubt.

http://www.cabochon.com/rules.html

[Maegdae]

Hmm... some things I like, others I don't...


4.
I like this one (I won't complain if you die or get a ring of speed +16 destroyed by electricity, but repetive swearing is annoying)


5. and 6
I don't steal, and I usually don't pk unless I catch somebody pk'ing/stealing, but these commands are in the game; I think they should remain that way.


The section on quests doesn't currently apply to Mangband.

[Berendol]

Wyvern is a very different game from MAngband, so I think I should clarify some of those rules a little.

What they mean by "Shouting" is this. In the game they have normal chat, which anyone in your "area" can see (the map/level you're on), and then they have shouting, which anyone currently playing can see. You have to type a special shout command to shout, too. Rule #4 is necessary there, because they have a lot of players on at once, and that could be a problem with some people. Note that there is no clause about swearing in your normal area chat.

I'd rather keep all the original features of the game enabled, personally.
* Clone wands can definitely get you killed, especially if the wonderfully evil ideas we talked about make it into the game, Crimson I think they should be re-enabled for all players when you put those features in - possibly being disabled on the town level. I know I cloned shriekers in town more than once  ;D  Yeah, that was me. I think clone & polymorph should be disabled in town. Only for monsters though... fruitbatting needs to be enabled in town.
* Stealing, well, that can be removed and nobody will miss it. The only people who use it are newbies when they find out it exists. The general consensus is that it's pretty retarded, and anyone doing it should be killed.
* Player killing should stay as well. Perhaps pkilling ghosts or fruit bats could be restricted but often this is the only way to squelch someone who ruins the game for everyone. Maybe ghosts could only be allowed to talk to named people, not the general public, when they were pkilled? That would go hand-in-hand with the ignore option we've discussed.

Anyways, I've said enough, I will see you all in the next few days if all goes well. (I forgot my new character's password, and it's stored on my computer at school. 300 miles away!)

[Aelfwine]

The most difficult, and perhaps most important rule to make Mangband enjoyable is:

5)  Don't pkill without a decent reason.  (Note that "I wanted his stuff" is at times a decent reason, but farming level 1 characters is just mean )

Now what is a good reason and what isn't ? Who would know ? Since it's up to us, the players, to decide, anything goes. Someone suggested if there is flagrant abuse, one should ask a 50th lvl mage to go in and help. But what if the only 50th lvl mage is with the PKillers ?

Let me tell you what happened recently:
The server was strange, didn't save any character changes. So I found it pointless to go onplaying, instead I logged out, did some work, reinlogged later and asked if it had been fixed. Person A told me to go away, since he was practicing PKing and stuff now that it was safe...
About 30 mins later, I logged in again, now person A says he will later kill me if I don't stop shouting. (A simple question was all I had..) Since I was really keen on playing and I heard some of the guys speaking that they knew the whereabouts of Crimson the admin, I returned hopefully, and asked privately to a former partymember... He answered me, but person A had noted I was in the game again and came killing me. No big loss, since character changes weren't saved, and I didn't log in any more that day.

Now for the surpricing bit: Next time I log in, person A turns me into a fruitbat. Since my inventory was full, I lost a lot of things. I get rather angry, and starts looking for someway of returning to normal, realizing it will be difficult, since person A left immediately after succeding. When I ask if someone would help me getting cak to normal, some of his friends laugh at me.. I ask person B (He and A both belong to party PKillers R Us) if he think that this was fair, he comes and kills me without warning.  I resurrect in church (still being a bat), am surpriced to find person A polymorphing me back to normal. I go get my gear, but I have only put them on, when B kills me again. I ask them if they're done by now, and yes they are; It was my fault for not know that I had to make peace with person B after he has killed me.. So I resurrect again, get what's left of my gears by now, and look! person A starts polymorphing me again...

Both person A and B are very high level, especially person A would probably be unmatched with anyone...
But it's really person B that annoys me. I could have leved with someone polymorphing me, but risking being killed at sight in town by someone twice my level just makes it impossible to stay on this server...

Effects are:
1) I lost 7 levels
2) I lost most of my equipment
3) I lost the opportunity to play Mangband on the only populated server, since I feel they will only go on...

When people asked them what they were doing, they started telling lies, of cause...

If person A or B happen to see this, you can send me a mail, and tell me whether you're gonna continue with this PKing craze, or whether I can continue my game somewhere in future...

OK I guess you all think this was a long whine, a real Mangband players should accept being randomly PKed by people at lvl50 whenever they feel like it.. I still think we have a problem with rule 5...

Aelfwine, no longer playing on this server...

[Domino]

I'll reply to this..  Item.  Everyone who plays pretty much realizes that I warn people PRIOR to pkilling.  Everyone also knows that while I may poly people I don't kill unless they repeatedly offend me and/or ignore my warnings.  

As for your 'I only asked once and then just kept logging in'  I'll have to refute this.  You bugged me every 10 - 15 minutes for nearly a 3 hour period.  I specifically warned you that if you didn't cut it out and show some patience I would kill you after the game was returned to normal.  Note that when I say you bugged me, I was the only person on other than a VERY idle Crimson when you were asking.  Later when others logged on you continued to ask anyone and I responded with my warning to lump it with the rest of us.  Everyone else who logged in had a bit of fun and enjoyed the respite from risk.

Now, I ended up not killing you.  I did polymorph you.  My party mate chose for reasons of his own to kill you, I neither asked nor cared why.  I took pity on you and polymorphed you back to normal.  Later I was attempting to polymorph another person, however friendly target generaly tags the person with the lowest hps in your line of sight.  I chose not to hostile target because if I had the other person would have died if we brushed.  Anyway you need to realize that this game allows pkilling.  

Now as to the server rule you quoted.  Pkilling with a decent reason.  Thing is this is extremely open ended.  Now, I can kill you if I want your gear.  I can kill you if you bug me.  I can kill you if you steal from me.  I can kill you if you break other rules such as giving away gear for free.  Deal is this,  the server admin is gone much of the time and I am not going to whine to him about annoying stuff so he can play 'Dad' when I can take care of it myself.   The reason I choose to enforce server rules is simple.  If I'm not allowed to do something, I'm not gonna let anyone else do it either.  Combine this with the fact that I gave you ample opportunity to shut up leaves me feeling vindicated.

[Berendol]

Yeah, I've never seen Domino kill anyone without proper justification as per my selection of guidelines, which you can find elsewhere on the forums. I'll just attest to that right now. Anyways, check the facts, and don't forget if you started blabbing and got warned to stop multiple times. Today's lesson is: If you don't get a reply, chances are you're not getting one, so don't keep asking!

[Kime1R]

The character Flame on the Rohnan server has been PKing, apparently just for fun.  His only excuse was that he wanted a challenge, but I can't imagine PKing characters 30 levels lower is much of a challenge.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

And your point is?

[Domino]

I was sitting next to Flame during said pkilling and he said he was providing a challenge and some chaos not wanting a challenge.  Plus he wanted your speed boots..

[Crimson]

for future reference.

If you feel you have a legitimate pkiller situation, send me an IM via the forums and I'll check it out.  If I  don't respond to your complaint, it's not a situation I'm interested in "correcting".   The main mangband server has by far the most compassionate, and polite mangband crowd I've ever seen.  Should you accidently instigtate a pkill incident, or be the subject of one, it'd almost shock me to learn there wasn't a legitimate reason behind it.   Bear in mind that pkilling, under most any normal circumstance, is by no means a violation of any current rules.

[Crimson]

this is also a useful read, though it's not mangband.org specific.

http://www.mangband.org/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya ... 1041883203