I have had problems with trading before. Both with having people come to my house to trade (guy quit inside making it so that I essentially lost the house) and trading in town and having some random guy zoom by and pick something up.
An auction house or trade window type thing would be great for future additions.
PK Vote
Re: PK Vote
King of the Hill Baby!
Re: PK Vote
I say restricted pk... probably because I haven't been pked yet. It would be nice if we could duel without risking death though... and maybe even have dueling rankings, etc (dueling highscores!), but that might be tough to add to the game.
I like the idea of pking within +/- 5 levels at 500 ft., +/- 20 levels at 2000 ft., etc. (in the wild, you could take the absolute value, so +/- 17 levels at -1700 ft., etc., and going into the wild would be like entering pk friendly areas) Thus, in town, you can only pk someone at the same level (this might have to be changed). On top of that, a ghost should be considered as having half of the level a living player would (pretty much eliminating ghost killing).
I think pk adds to the game (why aren't we having group wars?), but it's really really nice when you stand a chance of surviving...
I like the idea of pking within +/- 5 levels at 500 ft., +/- 20 levels at 2000 ft., etc. (in the wild, you could take the absolute value, so +/- 17 levels at -1700 ft., etc., and going into the wild would be like entering pk friendly areas) Thus, in town, you can only pk someone at the same level (this might have to be changed). On top of that, a ghost should be considered as having half of the level a living player would (pretty much eliminating ghost killing).
I think pk adds to the game (why aren't we having group wars?), but it's really really nice when you stand a chance of surviving...
[Zeb] This guy should be easy!
Zeb was slain by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
[Zeb] oops...
Zeb was slain by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
[Zeb] oops...
Re: PK Vote
I'd rather let the drolems teach me proper respect for the drolems, than have someone else say "Oh, you don't respect them enough, so I will kill you."
Level-based restrictions still allow undesired PVP combat if you're within the required level. What's to stop someone from twinking a character and pushing it up or down to your level in a week or so, just to kill you because it's "within the rules"? Anyone can strip a character and kill it repeatedly until its level drops, and almost anyone can make a mid-30s character within a week, and anyone with a level 50 character can supply themselves with excellents.
And don't forget, ball spells, traps, polymorph and other such indirect PKing techniques (see the ones Domino mentioned) are still technically within the rules and you can't easily prove anyone did anything in that situation. So perhaps we'll need to do some serious work to ensure that PVP is restrictable for those who want to have it that way on their server.
[quote author=zeb link=board=discussion;num=1140990716;start=15#24 date=02/27/06 at 20:28:46]why aren't we having group wars?[/quote]
Maybe because parties are temporary and player ghosts are killable... if the party leader's ghost dies, the party ceases to exist. That's not much incentive to get involved in a war.
Level-based restrictions still allow undesired PVP combat if you're within the required level. What's to stop someone from twinking a character and pushing it up or down to your level in a week or so, just to kill you because it's "within the rules"? Anyone can strip a character and kill it repeatedly until its level drops, and almost anyone can make a mid-30s character within a week, and anyone with a level 50 character can supply themselves with excellents.
And don't forget, ball spells, traps, polymorph and other such indirect PKing techniques (see the ones Domino mentioned) are still technically within the rules and you can't easily prove anyone did anything in that situation. So perhaps we'll need to do some serious work to ensure that PVP is restrictable for those who want to have it that way on their server.
[quote author=zeb link=board=discussion;num=1140990716;start=15#24 date=02/27/06 at 20:28:46]why aren't we having group wars?[/quote]
Maybe because parties are temporary and player ghosts are killable... if the party leader's ghost dies, the party ceases to exist. That's not much incentive to get involved in a war.
By appreciation, we make excellence in others our own property. (Voltaire)
Re: PK Vote
Won't that make it more like real life? If you take out the leader, you take out the group.
Anyways, I doubt anyone is going to do any of the things you mentioned... why go to such effort just to kill one guy? Unless they're really annoying, in which case they deserve it (i.e. Kull).
Anyways, I doubt anyone is going to do any of the things you mentioned... why go to such effort just to kill one guy? Unless they're really annoying, in which case they deserve it (i.e. Kull).
[Zeb] This guy should be easy!
Zeb was slain by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
[Zeb] oops...
Zeb was slain by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
[Zeb] oops...
Re: PK Vote
I say only limited PK. When I first started to play again, after a hiatus of several years, I was PKed twice on the first day I played, both time in town. It was almost enough for me to decide to stay away from the game. Why bother to even try if the higher level characters are spending their time wiping out the beginners?
After that first day, however, I've had nothing but good experiences. I think the game is one best played in cooperation with the other players. Maybe we need a 'King the whole party' option with parties frozen when they first reach 5000'.
For PKs, limiting them to outside town or in the dungeon with a maximum differential between players sounds best. Though I realize it's not a simple implementation...
After that first day, however, I've had nothing but good experiences. I think the game is one best played in cooperation with the other players. Maybe we need a 'King the whole party' option with parties frozen when they first reach 5000'.
For PKs, limiting them to outside town or in the dungeon with a maximum differential between players sounds best. Though I realize it's not a simple implementation...
Mangband Project Team Member
Re: PK Vote
Pressed between the two options I'd choose PK over no-PK because I realize the necessity of it in an environment like MAngband, and I also realize that the players can come together to deal with any true problems.
On a somewhat unrelated note, though, more permanent parties would be nice, especially if they allowed for co-leaders. Would make for a good tool for/against PvP.
On a somewhat unrelated note, though, more permanent parties would be nice, especially if they allowed for co-leaders. Would make for a good tool for/against PvP.
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Re: PK Vote
A: No PK.
And let's assume the silent votes of people who have been driven away from the game by allowing players to ruin other players experience. And, for more fun, let's filter out the votes of people who haven't even freaking played in a year, having only returned to kill some players and give away some free loot after realizing they crossed the line.
Cuz let's be really clear why this entire discussion is taking place now: because Juan and Angus decided to show and and kill a new player, his ghost, and the player's alts, because the player pointed out something these guys were doing that was lame, and against server rules.
And let's assume the silent votes of people who have been driven away from the game by allowing players to ruin other players experience. And, for more fun, let's filter out the votes of people who haven't even freaking played in a year, having only returned to kill some players and give away some free loot after realizing they crossed the line.
Cuz let's be really clear why this entire discussion is taking place now: because Juan and Angus decided to show and and kill a new player, his ghost, and the player's alts, because the player pointed out something these guys were doing that was lame, and against server rules.
Re: PK Vote
Hey I've played regularly within the last year, I've given no-one free loot, and I don't feel I've crossed any lines.
While I hosed bran's ghost _I_ didn't kill his alts etc etc. Nor do I accept any responsibility for Juan's actions. He does as he wishes when he wishes for whatever reason he wishes. At best I'll tell him to knock it off when I think he's being over zealous, which I do from time-to-time.
Frankly though I realy have no pity for someone who's dumb enough to hang around as a ghost on the same level they were just pked on and/or also foolish enough to log in an alt immediately after being pked.
These arguments come up nearly every time he or I pk someone, and every single time we get backed up by Crimson as playing within the rules. Only occasionally does he ever tell Juan to knock it off with regards to over-killing small players. I have yet to be so cautioned because I don't do it.
As far as the art hoarding goes, I explained that before elsewhere in the forums. There was no 'Oh Noes this guy outed my secret I must kill him!'. If you recall the last server instance, I killed people for floating ghosts through my house then too. My house is mine and what I have is not for public consumption.
As for the arts themselves, Crimson used to run an audit fairly regularly and reset unused arts after a week or so of not being on a player so I didn't realy pay attention to them. There was no plan to hoard, I simply didn't give it any thought. Nothing I do here has ever been beyond his ability to find out and trust me, he does look. And if there's a problem he will take action as he's proven time and again. He may not say much, but then again he doesn't need to.
You guys seem to think there's this conspiracy between me and Juan to ruin everyone's else's enjoyment but that's simply not so. Do you realy think that I couldn't kill off any other player that I wanted to? Come now, you guys have seen me take out level 50's like they were nothing before, from Steel to Szy, Dwarfy to Maegdae. If I want you dead, you're going to die. And the fact is, I don't. I rarely kill anyone, it's just that when I do, I kill them completely if I get the chance. I don't play the half measures game. Your fear that I will do that simply because I have the option to do so is YOUR problem.
Fact of the matter is, this vote is irrelevant. This is not a democracy and Crimson's voice is the only one that truly matters. So far, the majority of the currently active people are fine with the way the rules are but even if they weren't they have the option to play elsewhere or start thier own server.
What I don't understand is why no-one is willing to put in the effort to do so. The like minded WILL show up. My pkill server was fairly popular in the time I had it up. I had over 30 unique ip's in less than 3 weeks which is pretty active for Mangband. If you make a no-pkill server I'd pretty much guarantee that people will play it. But trying to convince someone else to change things to your preference is lame. I'm defending the status-quo not trying to get things changed, and when I did want more freedom I put up my own server. Hopefully it'll be up again shortly but I'll still play the main instance too so don't think that I'm going to dissappear.
While I hosed bran's ghost _I_ didn't kill his alts etc etc. Nor do I accept any responsibility for Juan's actions. He does as he wishes when he wishes for whatever reason he wishes. At best I'll tell him to knock it off when I think he's being over zealous, which I do from time-to-time.
Frankly though I realy have no pity for someone who's dumb enough to hang around as a ghost on the same level they were just pked on and/or also foolish enough to log in an alt immediately after being pked.
These arguments come up nearly every time he or I pk someone, and every single time we get backed up by Crimson as playing within the rules. Only occasionally does he ever tell Juan to knock it off with regards to over-killing small players. I have yet to be so cautioned because I don't do it.
As far as the art hoarding goes, I explained that before elsewhere in the forums. There was no 'Oh Noes this guy outed my secret I must kill him!'. If you recall the last server instance, I killed people for floating ghosts through my house then too. My house is mine and what I have is not for public consumption.
As for the arts themselves, Crimson used to run an audit fairly regularly and reset unused arts after a week or so of not being on a player so I didn't realy pay attention to them. There was no plan to hoard, I simply didn't give it any thought. Nothing I do here has ever been beyond his ability to find out and trust me, he does look. And if there's a problem he will take action as he's proven time and again. He may not say much, but then again he doesn't need to.
You guys seem to think there's this conspiracy between me and Juan to ruin everyone's else's enjoyment but that's simply not so. Do you realy think that I couldn't kill off any other player that I wanted to? Come now, you guys have seen me take out level 50's like they were nothing before, from Steel to Szy, Dwarfy to Maegdae. If I want you dead, you're going to die. And the fact is, I don't. I rarely kill anyone, it's just that when I do, I kill them completely if I get the chance. I don't play the half measures game. Your fear that I will do that simply because I have the option to do so is YOUR problem.
Fact of the matter is, this vote is irrelevant. This is not a democracy and Crimson's voice is the only one that truly matters. So far, the majority of the currently active people are fine with the way the rules are but even if they weren't they have the option to play elsewhere or start thier own server.
What I don't understand is why no-one is willing to put in the effort to do so. The like minded WILL show up. My pkill server was fairly popular in the time I had it up. I had over 30 unique ip's in less than 3 weeks which is pretty active for Mangband. If you make a no-pkill server I'd pretty much guarantee that people will play it. But trying to convince someone else to change things to your preference is lame. I'm defending the status-quo not trying to get things changed, and when I did want more freedom I put up my own server. Hopefully it'll be up again shortly but I'll still play the main instance too so don't think that I'm going to dissappear.
King of the Hill Baby!
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Big_Juan_Teh_Furby
- Iridescent Beetle
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Sun 27.10.2002, 21:16
- Location: Eugene, OR
- Contact:
Re: PK Vote
And something that boggles my mind is why do you automatically associate Domino with me, and vice versa? Sure, we're best friends, and until recently lived together, but we have sometimes rather radically different views on this game.
I was quite happy taking out each one of you that complained, even WITH the threat of Domino killing me. Crimson, however, has asked me not to, and, as a result, I won't. Easy peasy.
So, please, quit automatically saying "Angus and Ice"...it's giving Angus a bad name. I earn all the hate I get, and at times I cackle at it...but knock off lumping in Angus with everything *I* do.
I was quite happy taking out each one of you that complained, even WITH the threat of Domino killing me. Crimson, however, has asked me not to, and, as a result, I won't. Easy peasy.
So, please, quit automatically saying "Angus and Ice"...it's giving Angus a bad name. I earn all the hate I get, and at times I cackle at it...but knock off lumping in Angus with everything *I* do.
When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can turn into deadly projectiles.
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Crimson
- King Lich
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Sat 26.10.2002, 15:00
- Location: Mangband Project Team Member
- Contact:
Re: PK Vote
[quote author=Big_Juan_Teh_Furby link=board=discussion;num=1140990716;start=30#31 date=02/28/06 at 16:04:36] Crimson, however, has asked me not to, and, as a result, I won't. Easy peasy.
[/quote]
As a matter of accuracy, I asked BigJuan to "calm down before you put me in precarious situation, which you don't want to do." I do not directly condone PKs, but neither would I directly ask someone else to stop, if they felt it was warrented. The fine blue line here is it remains my judgement as to where it's justified, and I reserve all judgement with or without server rules to enforce it on my server. Your Mileage May Vary.
[/quote]
As a matter of accuracy, I asked BigJuan to "calm down before you put me in precarious situation, which you don't want to do." I do not directly condone PKs, but neither would I directly ask someone else to stop, if they felt it was warrented. The fine blue line here is it remains my judgement as to where it's justified, and I reserve all judgement with or without server rules to enforce it on my server. Your Mileage May Vary.
Are you not entertained?
Is this not what you came here for?
-- Maximus Decimus Meridias, The Gladiator
Is this not what you came here for?
-- Maximus Decimus Meridias, The Gladiator
Re: PK Vote
lol pwnt.......................................yeah so thats the bottom line from what i can tell
Re: PK Vote
[quote author=Domino link=board=discussion;num=1140990716;start=30#30 date=02/28/06 at 15:47:29]Come now, you guys have seen me take out level 50's like they were nothing before, from Steel to Szy, Dwarfy to Maegdae.[/quote]
Good for you. I live with Steel, and you're pretty much the reason he and his aunt don't play or contribute anymore. Too bad, because he had a lot of useful ideas for making the game harder. I take full credit for getting us rid of that Later kid, though, who has since apologized for his actions IRL and accepted his fate of still being banned. Every time I bring up the game, Steel asks me if you're still playing, and won't play again because he isn't interested in getting ghost killed because you wanted an artifact he had. It doesn't matter if you apologized and hooked him up later, it matters more that you hosed him in the first place.
What's the point of going "Hey, I feel like utterly killing someone who's invested countless hours of their life in this game"?
Seriously, though, don't you think maybe there is a more challenging game out there for you? I mean, what's the point of playing MAngband after you have utterly mastered it? Haven't you? From your posts, it sounds like you have. I've wondered about your reason for still playing for awhile. Just curious, that's all - is it because being king of the hill is fun, or is there some challenge or contest that I am unaware of?
Please shed some light. I'm not trying to get things stirred up again. I'm genuinely curious to why you think this way. Might be educational for everyone, and it might help us make the game a little better balanced, somehow.
[edit] By the way Juan.. good point, lumping you and Angus together isn't fair for either of you...
Good for you. I live with Steel, and you're pretty much the reason he and his aunt don't play or contribute anymore. Too bad, because he had a lot of useful ideas for making the game harder. I take full credit for getting us rid of that Later kid, though, who has since apologized for his actions IRL and accepted his fate of still being banned. Every time I bring up the game, Steel asks me if you're still playing, and won't play again because he isn't interested in getting ghost killed because you wanted an artifact he had. It doesn't matter if you apologized and hooked him up later, it matters more that you hosed him in the first place.
What's the point of going "Hey, I feel like utterly killing someone who's invested countless hours of their life in this game"?
Seriously, though, don't you think maybe there is a more challenging game out there for you? I mean, what's the point of playing MAngband after you have utterly mastered it? Haven't you? From your posts, it sounds like you have. I've wondered about your reason for still playing for awhile. Just curious, that's all - is it because being king of the hill is fun, or is there some challenge or contest that I am unaware of?
Please shed some light. I'm not trying to get things stirred up again. I'm genuinely curious to why you think this way. Might be educational for everyone, and it might help us make the game a little better balanced, somehow.
[edit] By the way Juan.. good point, lumping you and Angus together isn't fair for either of you...
By appreciation, we make excellence in others our own property. (Voltaire)
Re: PK Vote
I killed Steel for numerous reasons and I never did hook him up or apologize later. You're thinking of when Maegdae killed him for Dor-Lomin.
No I killed him because he would scum levels I was on and go raid vaults or kill uniques when I had prior claim since I was there first and I felt he had no respect. If he's afraid to play since I'm around, well he's obviously learned that respect.
I continue to play because there is endless variation. I enjoy finding rare and unique items, I realy love new servers where there's a lot of danger and no-one to rescue you. And lastly yes, I do like the bragging rights of being King-of-the-hill.
No I killed him because he would scum levels I was on and go raid vaults or kill uniques when I had prior claim since I was there first and I felt he had no respect. If he's afraid to play since I'm around, well he's obviously learned that respect.
I continue to play because there is endless variation. I enjoy finding rare and unique items, I realy love new servers where there's a lot of danger and no-one to rescue you. And lastly yes, I do like the bragging rights of being King-of-the-hill.
King of the Hill Baby!
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Big_Juan_Teh_Furby
- Iridescent Beetle
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Sun 27.10.2002, 21:16
- Location: Eugene, OR
- Contact:
Re: PK Vote
Berendol, a question for you...and this is going to seem slightly inflammatory...why do you think you're special?
I get a very holier-than-thou sense from MOST of your posts of late. You're not even an active player...your claims to fame are that you ran your own server and you're a board admin. Basically you're a has-been player griping about things that you have the power to affect yourself...but you don't. You, instead, make veiled threats to lock posts and ban people.
Steel's gone. Oh well. He had good ideas for the game? Great! If he cared, he'd help regardless of Angus playing...shoot, he might help just to make it MORE dangerous for Angus. Can you imagine the level of satisfaction he'd get (potentially) when some ubermonster that he came up with RAILED through Angus?
So...what makes you so special? Have you even hit level 50, ever? You were always a so-so player at best.
I get a very holier-than-thou sense from MOST of your posts of late. You're not even an active player...your claims to fame are that you ran your own server and you're a board admin. Basically you're a has-been player griping about things that you have the power to affect yourself...but you don't. You, instead, make veiled threats to lock posts and ban people.
Steel's gone. Oh well. He had good ideas for the game? Great! If he cared, he'd help regardless of Angus playing...shoot, he might help just to make it MORE dangerous for Angus. Can you imagine the level of satisfaction he'd get (potentially) when some ubermonster that he came up with RAILED through Angus?
So...what makes you so special? Have you even hit level 50, ever? You were always a so-so player at best.
When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can turn into deadly projectiles.
Re: PK Vote
I will let Berendol defend himself, because I am sure he can. But seriously BigJuan, why don't you think about yourself a minute. What makes you so special other than you are a royal pain to a whole lot of Mang players? And what kind of sense do most of your posts give off? A horribly annoying blend of sillyness, sarcasm, and disrespect. I never really had a problem with you, but the more of your posts I read, the more I dislike you ;D. And now that you are flaming someone contributes to Mang by spending time admining this board when Crimson isn't around, I am beginning to think that maybe you are trying to kill Mangband.
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