Server RESET.

[Crimson]

The rohnan.mangband.org server will be reset (meaning started from scratch) on 06/01/2003 at 00:00 UTC.  This is both recognition of our first winner, Ashiki, and a golden opportunity to introduce some upgrades to town.  Have fun.

[Herbert]

arghh !!
That's so hard
I was just being lev50 and server resets...
But that's life, I guess all people will rush on the 1st day to get all the best houses, best arts, and so-so...
But that's the way life goes  :-/
Herby

[Berendol]

So be one of those people, and beat them to it! Not like you have any shot at getting any of that stuff now. If anything you should be happy because you now have the opportunity to get some really great stuff.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

First, a word of praise for Crimson.  He's already done so much for us that he deserves nothing less.

Now, onto the other crap.

This idea that the server needs to be reset is ludicrous at best.  The thought that resetting the server will put everyone on a level playing field is borderline insulting.

I'm going to pick on Domino, 'cos, well, he's hands-down the single best player I've seen.  I'm not saying that because I know him, I'm saying that because I've SEEN what he can do, time and time again.

The idea that resetting the server is good for the common population is stupid, plain and simple.  The fact that Ashi was able to beat the game WITHOUT a single artifact tells me that ANYONE can beat Morgoth.  Now, I can understand the "leveling the playing field" idea if he was loaded from head to toe in arts, but he wasn't.  There's NOTHING to stop a level 1 player from doing the exact same thing.

So what's the point of resetting the server?  What changes are happening?  Is 0.8.0 done?  Is that the code base that's ready to go?  If that's the case, what will you do with the .0.7.2 code?  Will it be placed online for download?

Again, this is your server...these are your choices.  This one is a FOOLISH choice.

Let's assume, for the moment, that you intend to reset the server every time someone kills Morgoth.  What's to stop Domino from creating a character and killing Morgoth in a very small time frame...say, 5 days?  I've SEEN him build a character to level 50 in that time.  I can't stress how exactly good he is.

Are you ready to reset the server every 5 days?

You said that you could make modifications to that policy if the situation arises.  Would him making you reset the server 6 times a month do it, or would it take you seeing the population of the game dwindle to zero?

People come here now because they can grow and flourish.  They enjoy trying to get bigger.  Hell, Herby just got to level 50.  Why take that away from him?  WHAT PURPOSE does it serve to reset the server?

What is the underlying purpose for this?  Please don't insult me by saying you're balancing the playing field...we all know that's not it.

Here's another thing for you and everyone else to consider.  What if, rather than killing Morgoth every 5 days, Domino decides to kill anyone who's big enough to be a threat?  Say, above level 30?  "Oh, he's level 31, time for him to die."

They'd both destroy the population.  People wouldn't play because they'd know Domino would hose them if they hit level 31...call it an undesired retirement.  By the same tolken, what about someone who's struggled to hit level 25, only to have the server reset after 5 days?  They start again, hit level 23, and it's reset again.  Now they've got to start yet _again_?  Screw that, they'll go play somewhere else.

I know this is your baby.  I know you enjoy making this game as enjoyable to all of us.  Why do this?  Can you tell me how it's going to make anyone enjoy this game more?

[Crimson]

You've apparently got some preoccupation here that the reason I'm doing this is in some way linked to Domino.  It is not.  Yes, I realize perfectly well that Domino could probably pull of a victory in very short order.  (a week is pushing it, but I know Domino).

The server is being reset for several reasons.  

-  It has been 9 months, we've had a clear winner, and this seems to me like a good time to restart it.  

-  It allows me to reset town, and upgrade it with some features folks have been screaming for.  No, it's not possible to do this on a running server, I've tried.  

-  It allows me to clear some other things that have long since been mired up.    We've got some houses in hopeless states of ambiguity, etc, that the audit won't even deal with.   Though a lot of things appear fine, trust me, there are some real problems latent in the underlying town you've come to call your homes.  Time to start it over, and build from there.

- Part of the 0.7.3 upgrade also eliminates some elements of code that are keeping mangband from being distributed by other 3rd parties.  Part of this is a system called TRACE, the other part references to XPilot that are no longer used.  Yes, this is a big issue.

Now, I'll address some of the other issues you've raised as well.

"So what's the point of resetting the server?  What changes are happening?  Is 0.8.0 done?  Is that the code base that's ready to go?  If that's the case, what will you do with the .0.7.2 code?  Will it be placed online for download? "

No, 0.8.0 isn't done, but 0.7.3 is.  0.7.2 has been, and will remain to be available.  It will not be compatible with 0.7.3 towns.  (This is the reason for the server number change).

"Let's assume, for the moment, that you intend to reset the server every time someone kills Morgoth.  What's to stop Domino from creating a character and killing Morgoth in a very small time frame...say, 5 days?  I've SEEN him build a character to level 50 in that time.  I can't stress how exactly good he is.

Are you ready to reset the server every 5 days? "

This, and several other related comments represent a social issue, not a game issue.  No, I don't intend to reset the server automatically every time somebody wins.  Things like this are by necessity handled by me on a case by case basis.  Every server admin maintains this right.

I completely understand this will not be  a *universally* popular decision.  No decision I've had to make has been.  This is where I earn my pay, as it were.  yes, you can feel free to blame me as an evil, evil person.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

Actually, no, I don't mean to come across as being obsessed with Domino.  I'm merely picking on him 'cos he's a lifeless slug with nothing better to do with his time but play MAngband  ;)

Thanks for your reply.  I do appreciate the interaction and effort, but, sadly, I don't know if I'll come back after this reset.  I can see rebuilding after my ghost died...I'd think of that either as my own foolishness or simply a bad turn of the RNG...but resetting it now doesn't make much sense...especially knowing that 0.8.0 is still down the road.  I don't feel like recreating a character only to have to recreate it AGAIN in another 6-9 months.  I'll go play some other game that doesn't have purges this often.

Lemme know when you're done tweaking with the code at that deep of a level, and I might come back.  Until then, I'm not going to keep devoting the time required to beat the game only to have my character purged.

Just my two cents.

[Crimson]

I do hear your concern.  Trust me, you'll want to peek in on the new additions once they're in place.  No, I'm not posting any spoilers prior to launch.  Trust me though, it'll be worth your time.

[Berendol]

Man, we [Crimson and I] have had some great conversations in the past about the future of the game, and I can't wait to see these awesome new features. You guys are in for a treat and nope I won't talk Not like he told me a whole lot, but I can see where he's going with what he did tell me!

As far as not wanting to waste 6-9 months of your time, you now understand why some people get upset about unfair full ghost pkills. As, I believe, was the case in Steel's recent kill. You have no idea how much I heard about that, or how much I tried to convince him that the person responsible is worthy of any degree of respect. But that's not a discussion for here. It's the same thing, really, there's nothing you can do but watch it happen. You'll get over it. Take a couple weeks off and get some fresh air and sunlight [in good ole rainy Oregon], and when you're recharged, come back. If not, well it was nice having you around, stop in and see what's cooking sometime.

Working on a game like this takes a lot of effort and believe me when I say it's hard to add new features to this code without breaking existing ones, and for true hobbyist coders like Crimson and I, it hurts immensely to not be able to add stuff to this labor of love because people want their precious hoards of items. How did they get them anyways? The majority of the great items in play? Scummed vaults with ESP and Enlightenment endlessly at 6350? Uhhh... months of hard "Work" aka borderline cheezing at risk? Sure scumming the bottom's risky, I mean gosh, gotta avoid Morgoth with a character that could potentially kill him and win. Just destruct, and plug monsters into the standard 5 formulas with only slight variation: Destruct, Anti-summoning corridor, [Mass] Genocide, Corner, or Kill head-on. I consider it almost an abuse of the random nature of the game, but it's really not because you can always stair or recall into chaos hounds. We do need some way for good items to be obtained other than scumming the bottom for GV's, that keeps or increases the element of risk involved. This would make "Oh, I have a great esp hat and a speedie +16 and a balance DSM" carry a bit more weight.

Anyhow, I'd deal with resetting after a few months of gameplay. I'm really waiting for Domino to speak his piece about all this, because he seems to get mentioned a lot. I won't believe that he would kill anyone because they might be able to win, until he says or proves otherwise. I've heard rumors of him wanting to kill off L50 players because there were too many.. but none of the targets were near where they needed to be to take on Morgoth. And they were merely rumors, which I take for what they're worth.

So. Reset the server, and we can all start again and be happy.

[Bud]

Word. Besides, though I admit one CAN get confused, it is "just a game". Should be fun, then, and will be even more, I guess.

[Herbert]

Hi, I do agree for most part with Bigjuan, saying that the server is in stable state and most low level players (those who take more that 1month to get a lev50 player) would like to keet they're current character.
Also, considering that rohnan is THE official mangband server, it would be apreciable that is stays for as long as possible for anyone to have a real life-long game there.
So This leads me to a suggestion: why not have the rohnan server still on while the new server will be there too. So that players who want to test the new features can go and start a new char, and those who have hardly managed to get a lev30 player can still continue playing if the 0.7.0 version suits them well.
Doing this, maybe you'll findout that most players will stay on the rohnan server (even if there is no more arts available or no more houses for sale) or maybe in 2 months you'll find out that eveyone moved to the new server... ?
I imagine that it's not easy to have 2 servers running, I guess it needs 2 computers running, maybe some volunteers will propose to host it, I can propose myself but i'm not sure people will be happy of the lag we have to come to Senegal..
Other argument and proposal, I managed to have nice shops with all kind of stuff, Why not make the "old rohnan" a kind of playground where people can practice with the help of some higher players (not cheeze, but just a kind of big-brother-hood). A guaranteed rescue even at high level, available stat pots, +6 stat rings and +10 speedies for sale (not guaranted on the new server until someone hits the bottom and bring some up to town) and so... I guess it will attract more players ?
Once again, you are 100% free to reset the server, just maybe consider the proposals, it all goes in the way to make mangband more and more popular and playable for years.
Herbert.

[Crimson]

you're absolutely right.  There's no reason we can't simply duplicate the setup, and start a new 0.7.3 server.  This was actually the proceedure that was followed during the 0.6.0 -> 0.7.0 upgrade, and it worked well.

Is this a more acceptable solution?

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

I agree...this is a good idea.  :)

[Toast]

Just wondering, where is it?  Doesn't show up in the metaserver list...

[Avenger]

It would be nice if the reset happened soon. When I heard it was coming, I got suicidal and attacked the Emperor Quylthulg. Enough said.

[Berendol]

Crimson's Boss breathes time!
Real Life casts a mana ball!
The Potions of Coffee shatter!
Lack of Sleep breathes darkness!
You grope about blindly!
You are hit by something!
You feel the Server you are playing on is broken...
You are hit by something!
You feel the New Server you are waiting for is broken...

Ahh, I had to do it.