New Score List

[Domino]

I would like to propose a new scoring list:

The Pkiller's List.

This would show who has the most pkills in the game.  It would serve 2 purposes.  

• bragging rights
• letting other people know who the pkillers are so they can avoid them

Another thought that was actually brought up by Paragon was to fine pkillers.  He was thinking something like 1M gold, I have perhaps a better idea along the same line: Each pkill would adjust shop prices negatively by 1% for pkillers.

[Varguar]

Yes put the pkill list up!
That way we know who has killed and who hasnt got the go-nads to do it!

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

I agree!  I'd love to see the pkiller list.

...'course, I'm a pkiller, but still...  ;D

And a $1million fine?  Why?  Pkilling is legitimate and legal...what's confusing about that?  Why penalize it?

Sure, I could understand things happening to the pkiller...I was really bad on the last server...but fining 'cos I hose someone?  Thanks, but no...I'll make a rogue and just start stealing from people until they kill me, thus causing them to be fined or something.

One thing that amuses me is that people (like Later, for example) complain and whine that a select few people "own" this server and are untouchable.  Bunk.  You *CAN* kill ANYONE on this game...you just have to know how to do it.  I think, because it IS possible to kill ANYONE (this includes my characters, flame's characters, and jube's characters, believe it or not), it shouldn't be penalized unless it's really bad.

[Berendol]

It's messages like these that make me wish I had the time to devote to building a level 50 character on Rohnan, so I could mercilessly exterminate whiners.  ;D

[Maegdae]

No direct fines on PK'ers.. but I think that shop prices would be an interesting idea.  Somehow it just seems to make sense to me.  After a certain amount of time, prices would return 1% closer to normal.  10% or 20% max limit on price adjustments maybe?
I like the idea of a pk'ers list.

As for a select few ruling this server.. well..
it's not all that hard to get a character with the ability to kill 95% of the people who play on this server.  Jube isn't untouchable cause of his gear.. it's cause he has learned how to remain conscious of everything around him and constantly alert like the rest of us would dream to;

To Berendol:  You don't need a level 50 char.  The people you want to kill have the ability of somebody 40% smaller.. anybody who is whining like that is automatically open a myriad of ways.  Give me a name of a whining person and I'm sure that Jube, Varguar, Biguan and me will give you tips...

[Ashi]

I think there should be no fines. The only people that would want fines or even rules for legitimate kills would be sore losers.

I also think the killing score should give you more credit for killing bigger players. Anyone could cycle low level people, but the last person I killed was a level 50 who had been constantly telling me how much better he was.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

Oooooooo!  I can feel the burn clear over here.

*sizzle sizzle*

Why not give out XP for pkilling someone?  Like you get the XP the person lost from dying, but only if they're bigger than you, or have more XP than you do?  That'd prevent bigger people from hosing mid-level people for the sole purpose of getting XP, but it'd also encourage little people to try to wipe out bigger people.

[Crimson]

Well, because generally the only real way to pkill somebody of  equal level is to either way outclass them peronsally, or wait for them to be idle, which is akin to chopping down a tree.  Though I grant that's valid, I'm not sure how "experienced" you'd become from whacking at a tree.

In the former case, sure, but how would the game know if the other player was paying attention?

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

Ofeh.  I typed out a big response and the freakin' window crashed.

Anyway, what I was saying was that if someone kills me while I'm idle in town, they DESERVE my gear and XP.  Why is there this pervasive thought that town is some sort of safe haven?  It's safer than the dungeon, but it's NOT safe.  Ask Maegdae...he got hosed in town.

Even if I'm idle, I'm not going to be the easiest person to kill if you're small.  If they catch me when I've got a momentary lapse of reason, they outta be able to get the XP.  We have an auto-retaliatory system, and if a player can figure out a way to not be smacked on as a result, more power to him or her.

IMHO.

[Paragon]

Although the auto-retaliate and the hostile/friendly
settings do not always behave in the way you expect.

So, if someone decides to attack you using missiles.

You are not idle, and spot this. You go and hit them
hard.... what does the game say?

"you bump into..."

Well, you are friendly to them even though they have
made it clear that they are hostile to you.

This is the case even if they mellee with you.

(although you do auto-retaliate)

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

Auto-retaliate isn't flawless.  I never thought it would be.  Just yet ANOTHER reason to not idle in town.

What happens if someone goes polymorph/clone crazy?  You were idling in town and you get killed by something like that?  You still died.

Town isn't safe.  Your house is.

[Berendol]

Well I haven't spoken on this topic yet and I think my viewpoint might be useful. OK, I can see killing someone you really feel the need to "settle a score with" in town. As long as you clean up afterwards. But... it would still be nice to recall and go to the store (thinking everyone can see me moving, so they must know I'm not afk) and not worry about some high level power-monger with all kinds of artifacts and goodies killing me, whom he's picked out of his hat, for the fun of it or for some bogus reason like I have a high level and there are a lot of high level players these days, or I happened to walk by when he was having a bad day in real life. Honestly, I don't get a lot of time to play, so it takes me months to gain levels, and I'd rather not worry about someone who plays for hours every day wiping those months out as a spur-of-the-moment fun break. I don't annoy other players or whine, or have money or any good equipment for that matter. This scenario has not happened to me yet, for the record, so I'm not complaining about past incidents. Also don't read into it too much. I'm not basing this hypothetical scenario on any specific person or group. Anyone could do it if they had been here long enough. Have I pkilled? Yes. Ghost pkilled? I don't recall anytime I did. I'm a little concerned by the new direction I'm seeing these posts taking, and I am interpreting them as saying it's ok and desirable to fully destroy people going about their business in town. I do not idle in town, and neither do I think it's a good idea - but killing people while they are doing routine business? There's no honor in that. Sure, it's not against the rules, but it's not honorable or respectable either. (In Varguar's terms, you'll get no 'go-nad points' for it.)

I would like to see a PKill list though, with perhaps more information about each pkill the person in each slot has committed - depth, level/level, GoI used, speed/speed, rounds taken, time since last command for the killed, ghost kill, hp remaining, ac/ac, bpr/bpr, etc. so we can see to some extent which kills were manly and which weren't.

It would be quite simple to determine AFK time, by a simple turn-based counter that resets when a command is received from the client.

Perhaps our real solution would be to have multiple towns, with varying monsters, so the high level players who have decided that the game is getting too easy for them could go to some dangerous town where nobody else could survive for long. Then, maybe we'd have peace about all this.

Q.E.D or something

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

I, personally, think that giving more information on pkills is a bad idea.

On the mud that Domino drug me from, there was a specific common room that you could sit in and watch people's XP go up.  People, including Domino (trust me, he knows that place probably about as well as Crimson knows MAngband...it's scary), would watch, and could tell, based on how much a person's XP would go up, exactly where they were on the mud, then run over and hose 'em.  Why?  Because he'd know where he was, how much damage monsters in that area would do, roughly how much damage the player could take and how quickly, and if he could hose him or not.

With the information that Berendol suggests, it'd be just like that.  I'd hose someone (or even attack them with a level 1), check that information, then go "hmmm...I'd be able to wipe that guy" or "no way, he'd hose me".  I could see it being gathered and looked at from an administrator level, but players should NEVER have access to that level of information.

It's one thing for someone to say "oh, yeah, I'm +18 speed" and be lying, it's quite another for the game to say "Player X is +18 speed".

[Berendol]

I meant the information would only be recorded at the time of the kill, and without any kind of XP or anything indicated. Just enough info to tell the circumstances surrounding the kill. Oh, I wanted a time-of-day indicator, too. You could VERY easily mask your true strength, right? It would make pkilling more of an art form than it is now, because you could try to kill people in certain ways or brag that you did it without invulnerability, at normal speed, with 0 AC. The list wouldn't preferably be updated more than once or twice a day. It would definitely show that X player is likely to kill Y level players so you should avoid him at RL times of day around Z. That would make the hunt a bit more exciting, wouldn't it?

People that get pkilled tend to liberally shout out more info about themselves than that screen would ever contain anyways, so I don't see the point of hiding it...

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

I'd still not like to see it, 'cos I KNOW I'd have a bad day at some point, check the list and go "oh, he should be a quick kill", then go hose him.

I'm not being an ass, I'm just saying it like it is.  Or could be.  Or would be.  Something like that.  Given that information, I WOULD, without question, go hose people that I outclass, just because I can.  Is it fair?  No.  Is it honorable?  No.  Do I do it now?  No, not really...not like I did last server.  I really DO try to stay away from pkilling on this server.

What would happen if we got someone who's got Domino's skill and my cruel streak?  Someone who can crank out level 50 people with not a lot of problem who'd then take the information on people and go stomp them into the ground, just because they could?

See, it's easy for me because I've BEEN that guy...I've been the one who runs over and hoses people just because I can.  Again, I've seen the error in my ways, and try to avoid pkilling about 98% of the time.  I'm writing this to as if I was still being the enormous prick I've been in the past...because, trust me, with this information, I'd be quite tempted.

"Hmmm...he's got 2 blows a round and +2 speed.  I've got 5 bpr and +35 speed....he's hosed."